But the real particle they have not found. Real particle is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. That they have not found.

Particle Men

Find that superior particle, the living entity

PRABHUPADA: Every day you find they are discovering new theory, new theory: "Atom, electron, this tron, that tron." Not the jivatma. They remain the same ass, first-class ass, scientific ass. They are finding out so many atoms, electrons, this tron, that tron, not that one ten-thousandth part of God. That they cannot find. Keshagra-shata-bhagasya shatadha kalpitasya cha jiva-bhago sa vijñeyah [Chaitanya-charitamrita Madhya 19.140]. They have not come to that point, that one ten-thousandth part of the top of the hair is the jiva, living entity. They have not come to that, neither they'll be able to come to that, because they remain ass, more and more ass, first-class ass, O.K. ass and then going on, the quality of ass.

DR. PATEL: When the atom bomb was exploded, Sir Rutherford of England said that "This is nothing but the mental process. Real process somewhere else." He has spoke these words.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Yes.

DR. PATEL: Highest scientist.

PRABHUPADA: They are finding out a small particle, particle, particle, still going on. You were reading me the other day? So...

BRAHMANANDA:Yes.

DR. PATEL: Smaller particle than the...

PRABHUPADA: But the real particle they have not found. Real particle is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. That they have not found.

BRAHMANANDA: They find these particles in their machines called atom-smashers. They take atoms and they smash them together...

PRABHUPADA: But that measure means still they are measuring material. Apareyam. These are all apara. They cannot come to that. Itas tu viddhi me prakritim param. There is another atom. That, these rascals, they do not know, neither they'll be able to come out. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, apareyam: "These are all material." Itas tu viddhi me prakritim param: "There is another atom." And where is that science? Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakritim param: And that atom, jiva-bhutah, that is living entity. That, the rascals, they do not know. They're still hovering upon material particles.

DR. PATEL: No, but they get inkling of real higher source of all these things...

PRABHUPADA: No, higher...

DR. PATEL: ...slowly and slowly. They have their own way.

PRABHUPADA: if you do not know what is that higher.

DR. PATEL: They have tried to know, sir.

PRABHUPADA: This kind of approach will not help them. No, no. That is the... That is there. They'll not know. Panthas tu koti-shatavatsara-sampragamyo vayor athapi manaso muni-pungavanam, so 'pyasti yat-prapada-simny avichintya tattve. Still it will remain inconceivable. These rascals, they do not know that. You have to simply hear from Krishna that there is another atom, apareyam. These are inferior. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakritim param. There is another atom. What is that? That is jiva-bhutah. You have to take this knowledge from Krishna, not by searching out. How you can find out one ten-thousandth part of it? It is not possible. You have no machine, no source of knowledge.

BRAHMANANDA: These particles that they have just recently found, the life-span is incredibly small, one-millionth of a trillionth of a second.

PRABHUPADA: Yes.

BRAHMANANDA: That's their life-span.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Life...

DR. PATEL: How they measured it?

PRABHUPADA: Whatever they say, we have to believe. That's all. [laughter] Except Krishna, we shall believe everything. When Krishna says something: "No, no, these are all fictitious. There is no Krishna, and these are all imagination." And as a rascal says, "Oh, this is scientific." This is going on. So we are not so fools that we shall believe these scientific rascals. We believe Krishna. That's all. This is Krishna consciousness. We are not going to believe the scientific rascals.

DR. PATEL: All, all good, these do good, sir. I believe you should not be very harsh to the scientist. I am sorry...

PRABHUPADA: They are not scientists. They are rascals. I don't accept them as scientists. They, if they are putting forward theories every day, what kind of scientist? They are not scientist. Scientist means fixed up idea. It cannot be changed. That is scientist. Na hanyate hanyamane sharire [Bg. 2.20].

HARIKESA: Just consider how great they are. They've managed to isolate one little tiny electron and one little tiny positron, and then they send one one way, and they send one the other way, and then they meet and they smash.

PRABHUPADA: So what is the benefit?

HARIKESA: But that's so difficult to do, you know. There are so many things get in the way.

PRABHUPADA: So you can... Difficult to do, you can count every... It is very difficult to count this sand. Can you count? It is very difficult. But you can waste your time in counting. [laughter] You are rascal; you can go on: "I shall count how many." But it is not possible. So that is rascaldom. Which is not possible, that we'll get. Now it is... Everyone knows there are some particles. Now you go on counting. Don't eat. Don't sleep. Go on counting. And shastra says, ""Even if you are able to count this, you'll not be able to know God, even if you are able." This is not possible to count, but even if you become so expert that you can count one day, still it will be achintya tattva. That is... There is a verse that even one day you become the rolled sky... The sky is so big. You can roll it just like you roll up your bedding. And even if you can, all the atoms constituted, still you'll not be possible to know, understand God.

DR. PATEL: Because their main hypothesis is... That is near the mind.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. So evam manasa-gocharah. You cannot have it. Shruti-pramanam. You have to hear from the authority. So if you want to waste your time in that way, you can do that. And next birth, you become a dog. That's all. This human life you waste in this way, dog's obstinacy; Krishna will say, "All right, come on. You become a dog." Human life... Even Chanakya Pandit says, "Even one part of your duration of life, one moment, you cannot get it back again in exchange of millions of golden coins." Svarna-kotibhih. Sa chet nirarthakam: "If you waste that time unnecessarily, then you do not know what you are losing, even from material point of view." This is Vedic civilization, not to waste a single moment of life for useless attempt. That is Vedic civilization. Every moment should be utilized. Especially for the human being, it's so valuable. And they are finding out sporting, swimming and surfing — simply all programs of wasting time, especially in the Western countries. How much they have invented, I see only and laugh. The elderly men of your age, of course, maybe my age also, they are swimming and surfing. How they have invented means of... BRAHMANANDA: Fishing also.

PRABHUPADA: Fishing. Yes, all old men, they are sitting hours and hours for capturing one fish. [laughter] Just see their civilization.

DR. PATEL: Because they are body conscious.

PRABHUPADA: Whatever it may be, we see that how they have invented various ways of wasting time, which is so valuable. That is our view.

GUEST: To them time is nothing because time is eternity after all.

PRABHUPADA: Time is eternity, but your formation is not eternity. Your formation is temporary. Time is eternity. No. Time is eternity, that's a fact, but your formation... Asann api klesada asa deha. It is temporary. That's all right. You know, I know, everyone. But it will simply give you pains, although it is asat. That you do not know. Time is... Body is temporary, but so long the body is there, you have to suffer. That body may be an ant's body or Brahma's body. So as soon as you get a material body, you have to suffer and go on examining urine and stool. [laughter] Hare Krishna. [break]

And take some urine and find out, "Here is life." That's all. They are examining very scientifically. The dead man's urine, if you examine and find out some injection and give it in life. Life is gone away, soul, and they are finding out life from the urine. [break]

They are finding out out so many atoms, particles, but in the Bhagavad-gita it is clearly said that all these atoms are apara, inferior. Find out the para, the superior atom. That is life. But you cannot bring in life by so-called mantras. That is not possible. You can write to these particle men that "You are finding so many, but there is another particle which is one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. Find out that. That is life. That is superior." And quote Bhagavad-gita, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakritim param. "Another atom." Give them information at least. That is Krishna's message. Simply by reading one book, Bhagavad-gita, you become learned.

BRAHMANANDA: Scientists will say that "We cannot find this jiva particle in our atom-smasher machines."

PRABHUPADA: But you are blind. Therefore you have to hear. A blind man is going forward towards the sea, so one who has got eyes, he'll say, "Don't go there." Then, if you go, go to the sea, you'll die. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. Because you are blind, therefore I am giving you the information. You take it. You don't go there. You'll not find.

BRAHMANANDA: But they do not think that they are blind.

PRABHUPADA: That is the disease. That is the disease. A diseased man never thinks that he is diseased. He thinks, "I am quite all right." But a physician will say, "Oh, no, no, you are diseased." He says, "I am quite all right." Cancer. And then, after few days, finished. They do not know that "Why I am dying?" They think death is natural. But Bhagavad-gita says, na hanyate hanyamane sharire [Bg. 2.20]. They have no brain to inquire that here is information that even after the destruction, the jiva does not die. But he does not inquire. He says, "Death is natural. Let me die." This is blind. They agree to die. And Bhagavad-gita says, na hanyate hanyamane sharire: [Bg. 2.20] "There is no death even after destruction..." They will not inquire about this. So blind. So blind. This should be inquiry, that "If it is a fact that even after destruction of the body I do not die, then what is that position?" That inquiry is also not there. They are so fool. That is human life, athato brahma jijñasa, to inquire about the spirit soul.

HARIKESA: The scientists will say that their particles are smaller than one ten-thousandth the tip of a hair.

PRABHUPADA: First of all find out one ten-thousandth. Then talk. Find out.

HARIKESA: They make measurements with, to the twenty-second power, like a decimal point and twenty-two zeroes and then a one. We were just talking about quarks.

PRABHUPADA: Quarks?

HARIKESA: Quark. Yes. The quark is the... There are things called hedons, and the quark is the smallest possible combination of elements that make a hedon, which makes up the protons and electrons. They haven't seen them yet. They just thought they might be there.

PRABHUPADA: Again, "Might be. Maybe."