Science, Law and the Lawmaker

Svarup Damodar: In physical sciences, there's a branch called thermodynamics that deals with the transfer of heat and energy in different forms. So their three laws are called first law, second law and the third law. First law deals with the conservation of energy in different forms. And the second law, it is stated that the energy of the universe is constant. Just like the, in the Sri Ishopanishad, the Invocation, purna...

Prabhupada: Yes. Purnat purnam udachyate, purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavashishyate [Ishopanishad Invocation].

Svarup Damodar: On the other hand the second law says that the, the entropy, that means the randomness of the all natural, spontaneously occurring natural processes, always increase. The randomness...

Prabhupada: But... Thing is that they are studying the laws very nicely. That's good. But they should appreciate that who has made this law? That is their defect. They are studying how the laws of nature is working. That's nice. But they should appreciate at the same time: Who made such subtle laws that they are working so nicely? That is our philosophy. We do not only study the laws and appreciate it, but we study the law-maker also. That is the difference between ourself and the so-called scientists. They are left, poor fund of knowledge. They cannot appreciate that there is a law-maker of these subtle laws. That is their defect. That is called poor fund of knowledge. And as soon as we accept law-maker, we have to accept that He's a person, He has got brain. Therefore He can make laws. Just like the great ocean is working, but there is a law. It cannot come here. Although there is potency. At any second it can cover the whole city But there is a law. Just like state laws. Up to this. No more admission. You have to stop. Similarly, there is law of God where there is order: You mighty ocean, you cannot come beyond this. This is law. There is sun. "You must rise at half-past, at five o'clock in the morning." "Yes, sir." This is law. "You must rise on the Eastern side." "Yes, Sir." Not whimsically. Sometimes this side, sometimes that side, sometimes that side. Cannot do whimsically. That is law of nature. And behind the law of nature, there is the order-giver, law-maker. This is perfect knowledge. Mayadhyakshena prakritih suyate sa-characharam [Bhagavad-gita 9.10]. "Under My superintendence, the laws of nature is working." This is intelligence. We are teaching people this intelligence. That's all. We don't decry that your studying of the laws of nature is useless. We don't say that. We say: "Not so much. This is imperfect. Go forward still." And that is perfection.

You are a science student. By your scientific knowledge, you prove that behind these laws, there is Krishna. Then your scientific knowledge is perfect. Either from the chemical department or physical department or electrical department. Any department. It doesn't matter. Through that department you go to the ultimate center. Just like here is center. And there are so many spokes. So many spokes. So whichever spoke you may be, come to the center. That is your perfection. The spokes may be of different direction. Like that. But center is Krishna. The energy, central energy is Krishna. Atah pumbhir dvija-shreshtha varnashrama-vibhagashah, svanushthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-toshanam [Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.13].

And these, these living entities, they're flying. They have got intelligence. "The men are coming. We shall be smashed." They're flying, taking shelter. Defence. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-mai... Defence, defence measures. They know how to defend themselves in their own way. Similarly they know how to eat and similarly they know how to sleep. But what is the difference between this insect and me? I can talk of God, I can understand God. It cannot. That is the difference. I can study Vedic literature, so many facilities for me. But all these facilities, all this intelligence, I am utilizing for the same purpose, eating, sleeping, sex and defence. Therefore it is useless waste of time, waste of life, valuable life. What is their benefit? Suppose you are studying that this law is working like that, this law is working like that, but you cannot help. You cannot change the law. You are under the laws. So what is the benefit simply by studying?

Svarup Damodar: They get some pleasure. Just knowing the law.

Prabhupada: That, that is sense gratification. That is sense gratification. Tesham klesho vashishyate. For that sense gratification, he's working so hard, spending so much money, but the result is that, taking labor is their business. That's all. No benefit, no other benefit. Tesham klesha eva vashishyate. Nanyat, yatha sthula tusha-khandana. Just like you have taken the rice from the paddy. So now it is only skin. And if you try to employ that machine, Deki—what is called?

Devotee: Thresher.

Svarup Damodar: Deki. What you'll gain?

Prabhupada: Deki, yes. Simply dag da dag da dag dak [imitates sound of threshing machine]. But the rice is already taken away. So their labor is being spoiled in that way. For the pleasure's sake, they are spoiling the human facilities. This is their intelligence. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Thakura says: jada-vidya jato mayara vaibhava tomara bhajane badha, anitya samsare moha janamiya jibake karaye gadha. This jada-vidya, this material science, is simply a hindrance to our progress of spiritual life. All these rascal scientists, they'll deny God. That is their business. Just like you said yesterday that somebody was accepting God, and the other scientists, they thought: "No, it is insult." So already they are in oblivion. They cannot understand what is God. And these rascals are making them more and more rascals. "There is no God." By their scientific research, the rascals are becoming more rascals. And they're becoming captivated: "This is pleasure." ...Therefore they are, they are gadha. They are gadha and they are creating gadhas. That is the song of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Jada-vidya jato mayara... It is expansion of maya's illusory energy. The so-called scientific advancement is simply expanding the influence of maya's illusory energy. They're already rascals and fools, and still they are being made rascals and fools. So they're forgetting their real purpose of life and the whole human life is spoiled. This is the result of so-called scientific advancement.

Brahmananda: Bhaktivinoda Thakura also says that the modern education makes men just like an ass.

Prabhupada: That is, I am explaining. Just like this, what is called, anthropology? Anthropology. It is a false theory, and upon this so many universities are spending money, professors. Thousands. Rascal theory. You see. In this way, they're wasting money. Shrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Avishuddha-buddhayah [SB 10.2.32].

Karandhara: They always have to revise their theories because about every few years they find something new which contradicts everything they have said before.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is their intelligence.

Brahmananda: And they think that's progress.

Prabhupada: Yes. Progress in one sense. Because they're rascals, making little progress.

Svarup Damodar: Advancing in the wrong direction.

Prabhupada: But the real progress is that when they will understand that: "We are rascals." That will be real progress, when they come to understand that: "We are all fools and rascals." That will be real progress. Just like Chaitanya Mahaprabhu presented Himself that: "My Guru Maharaja found me a rascal number one. Yes." That is real progress.

Svarup Damodar: Science is nearing that stage. Science...

Prabhupada: Because they're going to accept that they're all rascals? That will be the real progress. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of rascaldom, when he comes to Krishna and surrenders. Yes. Vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. He is everything. That is real knowledge.

Svarup Damodar: A group of scientists are now working on the idea that before we start anything, one should think...

Prabhupada: No, there is the latest theory. What is this, theory of ignorance? Or what is that? Theory of impossibility, or something like that?

Karandhara: Oh, theory of uncertainty?

Prabhupada: Uncertainty, yes. Theory of uncertainty. Everything is uncertain. And that is little intelligence. That, how to find out the certainty.

Svarup Damodar: The scientists, they claim that the discoveries are accidental and incidental, by accident, by chance.

Prabhupada: What is this? That means they're fools.

Svarup Damodar: In many instances, when they try to find out something, they do not find the real one that they want, but in between, along the way, they find something else. So that is why they call it by accident. Because they did not aim for that, but somehow they get it along the way. [break]

Prabhupada: [speaking of the sea gulls?] ... also know how to keep pace with the big, big waves. They know how to do it. They're not afraid of big waves.

Svarup Damodar: They know that the wave is coming. They run because they know that the wave is coming.

Prabhupada: Yes. And they know how to go forward and come back. Who has taught them this discipline? Krishna is there, within. Sarvasya chaham hridi sannivishtho mattah smritir jnanam apohanam cha [Bg. 15.15]. Krishna is dictating: "Now you go forward. Now you come back. Here is your food." He's giving intelligence. Sarvasya chaham hridi sannivishtho mattah smritir jnanam apohanam cha [Bg. 15.15]. He's giving direction in every living entity, but when a human being, He gives direction, if he surrenders, that: "Go this way. You'll come to Me." Dadami buddhi-yogam tam yena mam upayanti te. And that is human intelligence. So far these lower animals are concerned, they are given, being given intelligence how to eat, how to sleep, how to mate, how to defend. But a human being, if he engages himself in the service of the Lord, then Lord will give intelligence how to come back to home, back to Godhead. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. That is the condition. Tesham satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam [Bg. 10.10]. "Only to those who are engaged in devotional service with love and faith, I give him intelligence how to come back to home, back to Godhead." Therefore, after coming to human form of body, we must awaken our intelligence about understanding the Supreme Lord. And if we take up the process sincerely, with love, then Lord within will give you dictation: "You come this way, come this way, come this way." Otherwise, not. The first condition is: tesham satata-yuktanam. Therefore we are trying to engage all our disciples to be engaged twenty-four hours in devotional service. Then his life will be successful. That is our Krishna consciousness movement. Satata. Satata means always, constantly. Just like we are walking, but we are engaged in Krishna consciousness. Others are walking. They're wasting time. But we are, we are walking, but, at the same time, we are engaged in Krishna consciousness. We are eating. We are engaged in Krishna consciousness. We are sleeping. We are engaged in Krishna consciousness. We are working ... Always. Then Krishna will see: "Now he's serious. Let him have some intelligence, how he can come back to home." This is the process. And the pleasure of sense gratification, oh, that is also known how to do it by the hogs and dogs. They know. The hogs are eating everything, up to stool, for sense gratification. So the human being, if they have no discrimination, they can eat anything and everything for sense gratification, they are no better than hogs. What is the difference between hog and human being? The hog has no discrimination of eating. Anything it will eat, up to stool. So if a human being becomes like hog, without any discrimination, he will eat anything, that is advancement of civilization? Advancement of becoming hog. That's all.