Science and Monkey Business

Pancadravida: Because in the class that... I asked that question because we're saying, well, there's no question of creating life. We're agreeing that the soul already exists. But can the scientists... If a scientist claims he'll create the conditions in which a soul will enter, do we accept that premise, and I thought, "No, because that's giving them much too much ground," that if we say that, then by their definition, they can say, "I am creating life. I don't want to argue over the existence or not of the soul, but I'll arrange all the chemicals for you."

Prabhupada: Where is that chemist? Where is that chemical combination that, I mean to say, grows a soul, generate a soul? Even if you have got the chemicals, you cannot do it.

Pancadravida: Whether it's true or not, somebody was claiming to me that the scientists are creating primitive forms of life like enzymes and things like this because enzymes show... Enzymes are produced by life. They show certain living tendencies. The scientists claim they are able to create enzymes.

Prabhupada: So what is the credit? The enzymes are being naturally created, and the soul is there. So what is his credit? The arrangement is already there automatically, the secretion between the man and the woman, and they mix together, emulsified, and the situation is created, and the soul comes there. The soul is injected through the semina of the man. It is already arranged. So what is your credit?

Pancadravida: Well, they say the credit is that "We are doing these things in the laboratory without the presence of the soul. They are not being produced by any living organism."

Prabhupada: Eh?

Pancadravida: "They are not being produced by any living organism."

Prabhupada: No, no. That is your, your foolishness. Living organism is there. Just like we find something... The same argument, vrishchika-tandula-nyaya: "Vrishchika, the scorpion, is coming out of the heaps of rice." That... It does not mean the rice is produced the scorpion. That is foolishness. Rice, the heaps of rice, it does not create any scorpion.... Four sources of life: anda-ja, udbhi-ja, jarayu-ja and sveda-ja. Sveda-ja. The sveda-ja means just like these bugs. Wherefrom the bugs in the bed come? Is there any laboratory arrangement?

Pancadravida: No.

Prabhupada: So why these rascals do not understand? The bugs come from the perspiration. So in the perspiration, there is all chemicals, and the bug is coming. Now, where is their chemical? Who has put here chemical? This grass is coming. How it is coming? It is so...

Pancadravida: The chemicals are coming from the perspiration.

Prabhupada: No, no. That is another.

Pusta-krsna: Seed.

Prabhupada: There, that the, this grass is coming out of the earth. Wherefrom it is coming? Who has put the chemicals? And the eggs of the birds, they are produced in the womb of the birds, and from there the life is coming, the bird is coming. Where is the chemical?

Pancadravida: Well, that's just a complex chemical reaction. We can't explain it yet...

Prabhupada: But "Can't explain"—that means you are fool. You remain fool. Don't try to expose yourself, nonsense. You are a rascal number one; you remain rascal number one. When the neck is caught up, he says, "Yes, it is complex. We shall see in the future." Why "future?" What about now?

Pancadravida: Well, a hundred years ago we couldn't make this movie camera either. But now they are producing easily.

Prabhupada: That's all right. But you cannot do this business. This is an art. Hundred years ago, people could not produce electricity by mixing two wire.

Pancadravida: Yes.

Prabhupada: That is an art. It is artist's... What is called? Craftmanship. Hundred years, could not produce motor car. But that does not mean you have become God, you rascal.

Pancadravida: Well, isn't God just a craftsman also? He's just an...

Prabhupada: Yes, He is everything. He's everything—but not a fool like you. That's all. ... Mudhas. They [referring to atheistic scientists] are mudhas, means rascals, and they're exposing more and more that yes, they are mudhas. And another set of rascals, what is called, recognizing that "Yes, take this degree." Avyapare suvyaparam yo narah kartum icchati sa mudhah hanyate 'khilotpad iva vanarah. Vanara means monkey. Monkey... One monkey... there was a woodcutter. What is called, woodcutter?

Paramahamsa: Carpenter.

Devotee: Lumberjack.

Prabhupada: Eh? Lumber...?

Sruta-kirti: Lumberjack.

Pancadravida: Cuts trees?

Prabhupada: No, no. Formerly, with saw, they used to make planks from big, big... What is that?

Madhudvisa: Sawmill?

Sruta-kirti: Carpenter.

Prabhupada: Not... Sawmill is now. Formerly they were doing it-hand.

Pancadravida: Carpenter.

Prabhupada: Not carpenter. All right, the man who used to bifurcate the big, big planks, and after finishing the business, he would put one, what is called, plug so that it may not again come...

Pusta Krsna: Join.

Prabhupada: Jam. Yes. So one monkey came. The monkey came. He began to, as his business, [makes sound "kut, kut, kut," and the plug was taken away and his half part of the body—"Jam." And the... [Makes sound, monkey crying] "tahn, tahn, tahn, tahn." Who is coming to help him? He died. So this is not his business. He's a monkey. And he wanted to do that business. Similarly, these things are directly in the hands of God, and these monkeys are coming to get out the plug. So they'll die simply, that's all, like the monkey. They'll never be able to successfully produce soul and these things.

Madhudvisa: So couldn't the scientists say that it's God's will that when, when there is a...

Prabhupada: Now, now according to their theory, there was no human being. And from uncivilized man, they are becoming... They have taken to science, say, for last two hundred years. Before that, how things were going on without these rascals?

Madhudvisa: They say, "uncivilized."

Prabhupada: Eh? Uncivilized. And they are... he was producing the soul, man? They're uncivilized? This, such nice... That is another exposal of their rascaldom.

Madhudvisa: They say modern man is living much more comfortably than he did two hundred years ago.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Madhu: This is our advancement.

Prabhupada: What is that comfortable? What is the comfort? Give me the example of comfort?

Trivikrama: Air conditioning.

Brahmananda: Music

Madhudvisa: Cameras.

Pancadravida: Tape recorders.

Prabhupada: [Chuckles] These are comfortable?

Madhudvisa: Automobiles. Aeroplanes.

Pancadravida: Well, they enable comfort. A person can lie down in his comfortable bed in his nice apartment and listen to music out of the wall.

Prabhupada: But what about his death, how he's uncomfortably dying?

Pancadravida: Well, we can't change that.

Prabhupada: Then what you can change?

Visnujana: But they can give you drugs to make death so that you don't feel it.

Madhudvisa: Yeah, you can die in your sleep.

Prabhupada: That is, means another death. You check death by death. That's all. These are all rascals. You are not yet convinced that these, they are rascals. That is your defect.

Pancadravida: I went to see my grandfather when he was dying. They said, "We have a nice arrangement. He's going to die in two weeks. Don't tell him. He'll die peacefully in his sleep." That was their arrangement.

Prabhupada: Coma.

Pusta Krsna: Many of the scientists actually believe in God, and they think that by experimentation, they'll come to understand God more and more.

Prabhupada: That is another thing. That we admire, that you are trying to understand God. But "there is no God", and they are "becoming God"—that is nonsense.

Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hm.

Ramesvara: Some people say that Darwin was paid by the British...

Prabhupada: Yes, I said.

Ramesvara: ...to make propaganda.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Ramesvara: Against religion.

Prabhupada: Not against religion. Against Indian culture.

Ramesvara: Against Indian culture...

Prabhupada: Yes. Britishers made so many attempts that "Indians were uncivilized, and we have come here to make them civilized."

Ramesvara: So for colonialism.

Prabhupada: Yes. Just to... Because there are other powers, so they are envious that "Why these rascals, they occupy India?" So, so just to support this occupation, I mean to say, yes, occupation, and... they made so many propaganda.