If you say "That is not soul, something missing," so you can replace it. What is that something? That something also you do not know. Then how can you refute my argument, soul? You do not know anything. I at least know something on the basis of shastra [Bhagavad-gita]. But you have neither shastra nor experiment, nothing else. So who is strong? I am strong or you are strong?

Something's Missing: evidence that life comes matter

Weigh the evidence: 100 proof vs zero proof

PRABHUPADA: [addressing the scientsts who claim life comes from matter] So why don't you make such egg and put it into incubation?

PUSTA KRSNA: We challenge them like that.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Then why you are talking nonsense that there is no life? Why you are depending on other life for giving you the egg? So this theory that life comes from chemical, so where it is true? Life is coming from life.

PUSTA KRSNA: That's a fact.

PRABHUPADA: That's a fact.

PUSTA KRSNA: But they say that life is simply a combination of chemicals.

PRABHUPADA: So do it now. It is not difficult. You can see the egg's chemical, and just combine little chemicals and put it in the incubator. Let life come. Hm? What is your answer? The advocate speaks.

PUSTA KRSNA: "Yes, we are working on it." [laughter]

PRABHUPADA: Working on it. Eh? What is the answer? How long you will work? Is there any time limit? Eh? What is that work? What is the answer? Hm? How long you will work?

HARIKESA: I don't think anybody is trying to make an egg.

PRABHUPADA: Hm? Why not? Why they are not making, trying?

DEVOTEE (1): They know they can't.

PUSTA KRSNA: No, there are certain scientists that are trying to create life, but they've been unsuccessful.

PRABHUPADA: Then why do they talk nonsense, what the nonsense says? This is a very good suggestion, that egg is chemical composition. Make a chemical composition like that. That yellow, what is called?

DEVOTEE (1): Yolk.

PRABHUPADA: Yolk. You color it. Some chemical and color it. What is difficulty? Sometimes they say a man is dead because the color of the blood has changed. From red to..., it has become white. So where is the difficulty to make it red again? Do it. Change the color again. Make it red. And if you say, "No, that natural redness is required," so there are so many flowers, natural red. Why there is no life? If redness, natural redness, is the cause of life, so there are so many flowers, red flowers. Why they do not walk? If you say that the... "Besides that, the life substance is missing," that is also not correct. Life substance is there in the dead body; otherwise how worms are coming out? Life is coming out. Not one, but hundreds are coming out. How you can say the life substance is missing? The worms are coming automatically, but you take the portion of the dead body and produce worm. That you cannot do. So which way you are going to take credit as scientist?

These arguments are not sufficient to defeat the atheists?

HARIKESA: People in general might accept it, but the scientists could always come up with...

PRABHUPADA: No, why the scientists will not accept?

HARIKESA: Well, they don't want to accept.

PRABHUPADA: But that is another thing, obstinacy.

HARIKESA: Just like they... In Australia they created those enzymes which were moving and were the basic components of life. So then they say, "Well, we've gone so far and created these first enzymes, the initial component of life. So we'll put them together in the future." And people... That may be an argument. It's not a very good one, but they will accept. All the scientists will accept it, that they've gone so far and done that.

PRABHUPADA: No, then who is the scientist who is producing so many lives? You have not met him, but actually we see what you are trying to become successful in future, it is already there. Now, who is that big scientist? Why don't you find him out? Why don't you call him and give him Nobel Prize? Why you are taking? You are rascal.

What is their answer? Already things are coming. There are so many lives, so that you are killing lives, being afraid of overpopulation. So He is creating so many lives that you think of it as overpopulation, overproduction. So what is your credit if you suppose in future you create one life? What credit you are going to give Him? [break]

PUSTA KRSNA: Science is based on experimentation. They will argue, "So how can we experiment with the theories that you are putting forward?"

PRABHUPADA: Our theory or your theory?

PUSTA KRSNA: Your theory. Our theory.

PRABHUPADA: What is that "our theory"?

PUSTA KRSNA: That the soul is the life force.

PRABHUPADA: Yes.

PUSTA KRSNA: So how can we prove that? How can we make the spirit soul appear?

PRABHUPADA: How can you bring life force? Have you brought? Then how you can question this? If you have brought life otherwise, then you can question. As you cannot bring life otherwise, you have to accept this. This is the proof. Not only that... because the soul is there, therefore I am talking with you. I am replying your inquiries. And when the soul is not there, even the tongue is there, even the ear is there, I cannot hear you, I cannot reply you. [break] In the body of a dead man the same instrument is there by which I talk, why he cannot talk?

PUSTA KRSNA: The spirit soul is not present.

PRABHUPADA: Yes.

PUSTA KRSNA: It seems that you've made it so easy to defeat the scientists.

PRABHUPADA: Yes.

PUSTA KRSNA: Yet all the universities, schools throughout the world, they're simply following this experimental knowledge of the scientists. [break]

PRABHUPADA: [They mistakenly take the effect to be the cause, and regard the body as a living organism, whereas it is only a machine, a vehicle animated by the living force.] Just like this machine is recording, but as soon as electricity stopsÑthe machine is thereÑit will not record. You cannot say the machine is the ultimate. Machine is there; it will not record as soon as the electricity is missing.

So that electricity, either you say "soul" or something else, you replace it. Just like electricity means the battery you charge, it will work, again record. Similarly, if you say "That is not soul, something missing," so you can replace it. What is that something? That something also you do not know. Then how can you refute my argument, soul? You do not know anything. I at least know something on the basis of shastra [Bhagavad-gita, scriptures]. But you have neither shastra nor experiment, nothing else. So who is strong? I am strong or you are strong?

PUSTA KRSNA: [taking the position of the scientists] Our position is very weak against these arguments.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. I have got some evidenceÑKrishna is speaking, the Vedic shastra... And what you have got? Simply your speaking? What you are, nonsense? Your speaking should be accepted? And Krishna's speaking will be rejected? I have got some support, but what support you have got except your statement? Then everyone can give a statement and he becomes an authority. PUSTA KRSNA: But there are so many millions and millions of people who hold the opposite view. They feel that their position is very safe because it's the general consensus opinion that life comes from matter.

PRABHUPADA: General consensus of opinion... Let them say that there will be no more death, and how it will act? General consensus of opinion... Let them vote, "We do not want death anymore." Will it be accepted?

PUSTA KRSNA: No.

PRABHUPADA: Then? What is the value of your vote? You are madmen. Just like Gandhi made civil disobedience here, and government did not accept it. What could he do? Truth is truth. If the majority says, "No, it is truth," it will be truth?

PUSTA KRSNA: No.

PRABHUPADA: Then untruth is untruth.