Science Cannot Check Nature

Founder-Acharya of the world-wide Hare Krishna Movement, Brahma Sampradaya Acharya

Prabhupada: But I'm protesting that you cannot control. You are rascal. You are thinking like that. That is our charge against you, that you cannot control. In the history there is not a single instance that man has controlled nature. But nature has controlled man. That is the history. Where is the proof that you shall control? You are controlled. Nature is forcing you to become an old man. You are becoming. You control like that, that you remain a young man. Nature is controlling you to die. You control nature that death will not be forced upon me. So where is the history that man has controlled nature?

Nitai: They say that now we are controlling atomic energy and now we are controlling...

Prabhupada: What is that atomic energy? What is the use of it? We'll die. Without atomic energy you'll die. What is that control? Death is already there, and you're utilizing atomic energy for death, that's all. So what is your credit? You use atomic energy that you'll not die. Then it is control. Death is already there. You might have atomic energy or no atomic energy—you have to die. By atomic energy you are accelerating the same problem of death, that's all.

Tamal Krsna: Gradually we are learning how to become deathless.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Yasodanandan: They will argue...

Prabhupada: That is foolishness. That is called hope against hope. That is foolishness. Therefore we say because you are expecting like that, therefore we understand that you are a fool. We can immediately understand, "Here is a grand fool." That is our study. Many fools have done like that, and you are one of them, you are also scientific fool. Therefore our conclusion is "You are Fool No. 1."

Devotee: We may not be able to actually stop death, but while we're here we can at least prolong our lifetime and...

Prabhupada: That also you cannot do. Where is the proof?

Devotee: Well, at the atomic research plants...

Prabhupada: Oh, that is another foolishness, I say. You have not done it. You are simply expecting. Hope against hope. That's all.

Devotee: But they are making different cures for critical diseases that are causing deaths...

Prabhupada: That's all right. But that does not mean there will be no disease. That is already being done by many medical practitioners. Better medicine. But where is the medicine that will not be disease.

Tamal Krsna: Gradually we are eliminating one by one all the diseases.

Prabhupada: No, that you have not done. No disease... You have increased diseases. You have stopped one disease and increased another. Not stopped! But you have increased another disease.

Devotee: We have to learn though how to prevent all these diseases.

Prabhupada: Therefore you are fool. You have to learn. That means you have to learn, means you are fool.

Yasodanandan: But we are learning.

Prabhupada: Don't assert it, that you have done it already, you shall do it... As soon as you say we have to learn, that means you are fools. And while you are student, why you are claiming all these perfections? You have to learn. That you have to learn from us.

Brahmananda: Actually, when I was in Germany, there was evidence of how the scientists increased disease. They invented some vaccine to counteract influenza, and they injected all of Germany with this vaccine. But what happened is sometimes the body builds up resistance to these vaccines and produces another germ. So, as a result, another type of influenza was created, which was far more worse than the previous. It made people get fever for four and five days straight, 105 degrees.

Prabhupada: That is the way of... They have discovered this streptomycin, for tuberculosis, that if one takes too many injections of streptomycin, then it does not act.

Devotee: He becomes immune.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Brahmananda: So as a result of the vaccine they created a worse type of influenza, and they have nothing to counteract that worse type. So now they have to invent another type.

Prabhupada: These rascals give trouble to the people, especially in India. They are not after the vaccine. They will catch people and force them. Just see. This is going on. [indistinct] ...others are avoiding, they are going, going this way, that way. Sometimes they fall, they do not know, and capture [indistinct] These rascals are creating havoc. Only to kick them on their face with shoes. That's all. The so-called scientists and biologists and... They do not know anything.

Tamal Krsna: You were saying that all the scientists are fools and rascals but they may challenge, "How has your knowledge benefited you?"

Prabhupada: Your knowledge has not benefited you. Our taking your so-called science has benefited you because you are using it for Krishna. You have worked so hard, so result is going to Krishna. Hare Krishna. We are making the best out of bad bargain. There is chair but we don't care for the chair. We can sit down. But if it is available we don't reject it. Therefore [...you have made a chair and ... not that I require your chair, without your chair I will, shall die. That is not my policy. You rascal, you have done something, I'm using it for your benefit. That's all.

Tamal Krsna: They may argue that the knowledge which you say you have, it doesn't stop all of these things from happening to you. You're also suffering from symptoms of...

Prabhupada: Yes. But I'm trying because I have got this material body like you, so I have to suffer like you. But I'm making treatment. You are not making treatment.

Tamal Krsna: But the effects appear to be the same on everyone.

Prabhupada: No. We are not so much after doctors or medical...

Tamal Krsna: Your students also suffer from diseases and all...

Prabhupada: That's all right. So long the body's there, one has to suffer. That we tolerate. That is advised in the Bhagavad-gita:

matra sparshas tu kaunteya
shitoshna-sukha-duhkha-dah
agamapayino nityas
tams titikshasva bharata [Bg. 2.14]

Titiksha, we know how to tolerate. We are not mad after curing. We know these things will happen so long I have got this body.

Tamal Krsna: So your difference is that you tolerate, whereas the scientists don't.

Prabhupada: Because we know that there is no cure. You do not know. You are trying to cure. That is the difference between you and me. We know so long I have got this body, I'll have to suffer. So we do not stop our business. We tolerate and do our business. That's all. But you have no business. You are simply trying, hope against hope. But it will never be fulfilled. Just like birds, bees, they do not know science. But so long they have got this body, they are also sometimes diseased. But they have no science, how they are cured? The same thing, just like this tree, they have no scissors, so how their leaves are being trimmed, falling down, [indistinct]. We have discovered scissors, or clippers, but they have no clippers. How their hairs, or their leaves are being cut?

Devotee: Prabhupada, according to archeological findings primitive man, before, when they would get some disease they would just die. And now modern science has developed so nicely...

Prabhupada: That is there. And who is not dying now?

Devotee: Well, but...

Prabhupada: Well, well, well...

Devotee: ...they died at thirty, forty years old. Now we're dying at a hundred years old.

Prabhupada: So what is the difference? You die after forty years or hundred years? These trees die after thousands years. Does it mean the trees are better than you? If one dies after one thousand years, does it mean his life is successful?

Devotee: But all of us want to live longer.

Prabhupada: Why? Who is allowing to live long? If you trying to live longer, already trees are living longer than you. Then a tree is better than you? By living longer you want to take some credit, then trees should be given that credit. That is the point. Many big, big men, they lived for short time. Just like Shankaracharya lived for thirty-two years, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu lived for forty-eight years. They're still living! There are so many followers of Shankaracharya, so many followers of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Krishna ... [it is] told that He lived for 125 years, and Krishna is still living.

Yasodanandan: Jesus Christ only lived for 36 years.

Prabhupada: Who's caring for any tree who lives for five thousand years? If that is your point, to live long is a great credit, there are already so many living entities who live long, longer than you.

Devotee: Well they don't... they may be living a long time but they don't have the same intelligence how to use their life span...

Prabhupada: The dogs also got intelligence, the hogs also got intelligence. The intelligence which you are claiming, that is all discussed in Srimad-Bhagavatam. It is said yes they are living, but you don't see that breathing. So then the vastra, the bellow, it is breathing. "Waa, waa, waa, waa." It is breathing—the vastra. It is breathing. Here they are living but you don't see they have any sex enjoyment. The dogs and hogs, they are having very good sex enjoyment, even on the street, without any restriction, and begetting three dozen children in a year. And they give credit to whom?

Science we admit, but your science is not. You are trying to go against the laws of nature.