Life Comes
from Life - The Fourth Morning Walk
Recorded Talks
of A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada with Dr. Thoudam Damodara Singh,
Karandhara dasa Adhikary, Brahmananda Swami and other students.
Recorded on April 29, 1973, on the shores of the Pacific Ocean, near
Los Angeles.
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The Progress
of the Asses
Srila
Prabhupada: Everyone is suffering here in the material world, and
scientific improvement means that the scientists are creating a
situation of further suffering. That's all. They are not making
improvements. Bhaktivinoda Thakura[6] confirms this by
saying, moha janamiya, anitya samsare, jivake karaye gadha:
"By so-called scientific improvements, the scientist has become an
ass." Moreover, he is becoming a better and better ass, and nothing
more. Suppose that by working very hard like an ass, a person builds a
skyscraper. He may engage in a lifelong labor for this, but ultimately
he must die. He cannot stay; he will be kicked out of his skyscraper,
because material life is impermanent. Scientists are constantly doing
research, and if you ask them what they are doing, they say, "Oh, it is
for the next generation, for the future." But I say, "What about you?
What about your skyscraper? If in your next life you are going to be a
tree, what will you do with your next generation then?" But he is an
ass. He does not know that he is going to stand before his skyscraper
for ten thousand years. And what about the next generation? If there is
no petrol, what will the next generation do? And how will the next
generation help him if he is going to be a cat, a dog or a tree?
The
scientists—and everyone else—should endeavor to achieve freedom from
the repetition of birth and death. But instead, everyone is becoming
more and more entangled in the cycle of birth and death. Bhave
'smin klishyamananam avidya-
kama-karmabhih. This is a quotation from Srimad-Bhagavatam
(1.8.35). Here in one line the whole material existence is explained.
This is literature. This one line is worth thousands of years of
research work. It explains how the living entity is taking birth in
this world, where he comes from, where he is going, what his activities
should be, and many other essential things. The words bhave
'smin klishyamananam refer to the struggle for existence. Why
does this struggle exist? Because of avidya, ignorance. And
what is the nature of that ignorance? Kama-karmabhih,
being forced to work simply for the senses, or in other words,
entanglement in material sense gratification.
Student:
So, is it true that modern scientific research increases the demands of
the body because the scientist is ultimately working to gratify his
senses?
Srila
Prabhupada: Yes.
Word
Jugglery and World Crisis
Srila
Prabhupada: It is said in the Vedas, yasmin
vijnate sarvam evam vijnatam bhavati [Mundaka Upanishad
1.3]: "If one knows the Absolute Truth, then all other things become
known." I am not a Ph.D., yet I can challenge the scientists. Why?
Because I know Krishna, the Absolute Truth. Yasmin sthito na
duhkhena gurunapi vichalyate: "If one is situated in Krishna
consciousness, then even in the greatest calamities he will not be
disturbed." (Bhagavad-gita 6.22) Srimad-Bhagavatam
(1.5.22) declares,
avichyuto 'rthah kavibhir nirupito yad uttamashloka-gunanuvarnanam:
"Great personalities have decided that Krishna consciousness is the
perfection of life." This kind of knowledge is required. Not that we do
some research, come up with a theory, and after fifteen years say, "No,
no, it is not right—it is another thing." That is not science; that is
child's play.
Dr. Singh:
That is how they discover things—by research.
Srila
Prabhupada: And what is the cost of the research? It is a
scientific method for drawing money from others, that's all. In other
words, it is cheating. Scientists juggle words like plutonium, photons,
hydrogen and oxygen, but what good will people get from this? When
people hear this jugglery of words, what can they say? One scientist
explains something to some extent, and then another rascal comes along
and explains it again, but differently, with different words. And all
the time the phenomenon has remained the same. What advancement has
been made? They have simply produced volumes of books. Now there is a
petrol problem. Scientists have created it. If the petrol supply
dwindles away, what will these rascal scientists do? They are powerless
to do anything about it.
The
Billion-Dollar Dustheap
Srila
Prabhupada: Now there is a scarcity of water in India, but what are
the scientists doing about it? There is more than enough water in the
world, so why don't the scientists bring water where it is urgently
required? They should employ irrigation immediately. But instead they
are going to the moon, the dusty planet, to make it fertile. Why don't
they irrigate this planet? There's plenty of seawater, so why don't
they irrigate the Sahara or the Arabian or Rajasthani Desert? "Yes,"
they say, "in the future. We are trying." In their pride, they
immediately say, "Yes, yes. We are trying." In Bhagavad-gita
it is said that when one is engaged in the business of satisfying
unnecessary desires, he becomes bereft of all intelligence (kamais
tais tair hrita-jnanah [Bhagavad-gita 7.20]).
This moon project is childish. Those who aspire to go to the moon are
like crying children. A child cries, "Mother, give me the moon," so the
mother gives the child a mirror and says, "Here is the moon, my dear
son." And the child takes the mirror, sees the moon in it and says,
"Oh, I have the moon." Unfortunately, this is not just a story.
Karandhara:
After spending all that money to go to the moon and bring back just a
few rocks, the people on the space project decided that there was
nothing more to do there.
Brahmananda
Swami: Now they want to go to another planet, but they are short of
money. Going to other planets costs millions and billions of dollars.
Srila
Prabhupada: People work very hard while the rascal government takes
taxes and spends money unnecessarily. There should be no sympathy when
so much hard-earned money comes from the public and is spent so
foolishly. Now the leaders are presenting another bluff "Don't worry,
we are going to another planet. Now we shall bring more dust. We shall
bring tons of dust. Oh, yes, now we shall have tons of dust."
Dr. Singh:
They believe there may be life on Mars.
Srila
Prabhupada: They may believe or not believe. What is the
difference? Life exists here, but people are fighting. So suppose there
is life on Mars. There is life on Mars, undoubtedly. But what will we
gain from this?
Dr. Singh:
People are curious to know what is going on there.
Srila
Prabhupada: That means that for their childish curiosity they must
spend vast sums of money. Just see the fun. And when they are asked to
help one of the many poverty-stricken countries, they say, "No. No
money." Do you see?
Sankhya
Philosophy and Modern Science
Dr. Singh:
Srila Prabhupada, may we hear a little bit about Sankhya philosophy?
Srila
Prabhupada: There are actually two kinds of Sankhya philosophy: the
ancient Sankhya philosophy originally taught by Lord Kapiladeva, and
the modern Sankhya philosophy taught more recently by the atheist
Kapila. Lord Kapila's Sankhya explains how to become detached from
matter and search out Lord Vishnu within the heart. This Sankhya is
actually a process of devotional service. But the modern Sankhya
philosophy simply analyzes the material world into its various
elements. In that respect, it is just like modern scientific research. Sankhya
means "to count." We are also Sankhya philosophers to some extent
because we count the material elements: this is land, this is water,
this is fire, this is air, this is ether. Furthermore, I can count my
mind, my intelligence and my ego. Beyond my ego, however, I cannot
count. But Krishna says that there is something beyond the ego, and
that is the living force. This is what scientists do not know. They
think that life is merely a combination of material elements, but
Krishna denies this in the Bhagavad-gita (7.5):
apareyam
itas tv anyam
prakritim viddhi me param
jiva-bhutam maha-baho
yayedam dharyate jagat
"Besides this
inferior nature [earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind,
intelligence and false ego] there is a superior energy of Mine, which
consists of all the living entities who are struggling with material
nature and sustaining the universe."
Dr.
Singh: Are both the inferior and the superior energies studied in
modern Sankhya philosophy?
Srila
Prabhupada: No. Modern Sankhya philosophers do not study the
superior energy. They simply analyze the material elements, just as the
scientists are doing. The scientists do not know that there is spirit
soul, nor do the Sankhya philosophers.
Dr.
Singh: They are analyzing the creative material elements?
Srila
Prabhupada: The material elements are not creative! Only the soul
is creative. Life cannot be created from matter, and matter cannot
create itself. You, a living entity, can mix hydrogen and oxygen to
create water. But matter itself has no creative potency. If you place a
bottle of hydrogen near a bottle of oxygen, will they automatically
combine, without your help?
Dr.
Singh: No. They must be mixed.
Srila
Prabhupada: Of course. Oxygen and hydrogen are Krishna's inferior
energy, but when you, the superior energy, mix them, then they can
become water.
The
Remote Cause and the Immediate Cause
Srila
Prabhupada: Inferior energy has no power unless superior energy is
involved. This sea [indicating the Pacific Ocean] is calm and quiet.
But when the superior force, air, pushes it, it manifests high waves.
The ocean has no power to move without the superior force of the air.
Similarly, there is another force superior to the air, and another and
another, until ultimately we arrive at Krishna. This is real research.
Krishna controls nature just as an engineer controls a train. The
engineer controls the locomotive, which pulls one car, and that car in
turn pulls another, which pulls another, and so the whole train is
moving. Similarly, with the creation, Krishna gives the first push, and
then, by means of successive pushes, the entire cosmic manifestation
comes into being and is maintained. This is explained in
Bhagavad-gita (9.10). Mayadhyakshena prakritih suyate
sacharacharam: "This material nature is working under My
direction and is producing all moving and unmoving beings." And in the
Fourteenth Chapter [Bhagavad-gita 14.4] Krishna says:
sarva-yonishu
kaunteya
murtayah sambhavanti yah
tasam brahma mahad yonir
aham bija-pradah pita
"All
species of life are made possible by birth in this material nature, O
son of Kunti, and I am the seed-giving father." For example, if we sow
a banyan seed, a huge tree eventually comes up and, along with it,
millions of new seeds. Each of these seeds can in turn produce another
tree with millions of new seeds, and so on. This is how Krishna, the
original seed-giving father, is the primary cause of everything we see.
Unfortunately,
the scientists observe only the immediate cause; they cannot perceive
the remote cause. Krishna is described in the Vedas as sarva-karana-karanam
[Brahma samhita 5.1], the cause of all causes. If one
understands the cause of all causes, then he understands everything. Yasmin
vijnate sarvam evam vijnatam bhavati [Mundaka Upanishad
1.3]: "If one knows the original cause, the subordinate causes are
automatically known." Although the scientists are searching after the
original cause, when the Vedas, perfect knowledge,
declare the original cause to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead,
the scientists won't accept it. They keep to their partial, imperfect
knowledge. This is their disease.
The
Cosmic Machine
Srila
Prabhupada: Scientists do not know that there are two types of
energy—inferior and superior—although they are actually working with
these two energies every day. Material energy can never work
independently; it must first come in contact with spiritual energy. So
how can people accept that the entire cosmic manifestation, which is
nothing but matter, has come about automatically? A competent machine
does not work unless a man who knows how to work it pushes a button. A
Cadillac is a nice car, but if it has no driver, what is the use of it?
So the material universe is also a machine.
People
are amazed at seeing a big machine with many, many parts, but an
intelligent person knows that however wonderful a machine may be, it
does not work unless an operator comes and pushes the proper button.
Therefore, who is more important—the operator or the machine? So we are
concerned not with the material machine—this cosmic manifestation—but
with its operator, Krishna. Now you may say, "Well, how do I know that
He is the operator?" Krishna says,
mayadhyakshena prakritih suyate sacharacharam: [Bhagavad-gita
9.10] "Under My direction the whole cosmic manifestation is working."
If you say, "No, Krishna is not the operator behind the cosmos," then
you have to accept another operator, and you must present him. But this
you cannot do. Therefore, in the absence of your proof, you should
accept mine. END
6.
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura (1838-1914) is one of the great acharyas,
or teachers of Krishna consciousness in the succession of spiritual
masters. His son, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja
Prabhupada, was the spiritual master of His Divine Grace A. C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura wrote
prolifically on the science of Krishna consciousness. In 1896 he
initiated the teachings of Krishna consciousness in the Western world
by sending a copy of one of his small books—Sri Chaitanya
Mahaprabhu: His Life and Precepts-to McGill University in
Canada. Many of his Bengali songs are available in Songs of the
Vaishnava Acharyas, published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.
