Life Comes
from Life - The Eleventh Morning Walk
Recorded Talks
of A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada with Dr. Thoudam Damodara Singh,
Karandhara dasa Adhikary, Brahmananda Swami and other students.
Recorded on May 15, 1973, Cheviot Hills Park,
Los Angeles.
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Detecting
the Spirit Soul
Dr. Singh:
Scientists find it very hard to see the spirit soul. They say its
existence is very doubtful.
Srila Prabhupada: How can they see it? It is too
small to see. Who has that seeing power?
Dr. Singh: Still, they want to sense it by some
means.
Srila Prabhupada: if you inject someone with just
one hundredth of a grain of very venomous poison, he dies immediately.
No one can see the poison or how it acts, but it is acting
nevertheless. So why don't the scientists see the soul by its action?
In such cases we have to see by the effect. The Vedas say
that because of the minute particle called the soul, the whole body is
working nicely. If I pinch myself, I immediately feel it because I am
conscious throughout the whole of my skin. But as soon as the soul is
out of my body, which is the case when my body dies, you can take the
same skin and cut and chop it, and nobody will protest. Why is this
simple thing so hard to understand? Is this not detecting spirit?
Dr. Singh: We may detect the soul in this way, but
what about God?
Srila Prabhupada: First of all let us understand the
soul. The soul is a sample God. If you can understand the sample, then
you can understand the whole.
Modern
Science: Help or Harm?
Dr. Singh:
Scientists are in the process of trying to create life.
Srila Prabhupada: "Process of"! "Trying to"! That we
kick out; that we do not accept. A beggar is saying, "I am trying to be
a millionaire." We say, "When you become a millionaire, then talk. Now
you are a poor beggar; that is all." The scientists say they are
trying, but suppose I ask you, "What are you?" Will you say, "I am
trying to be..."? What are you now? That is the question. "We are
trying" is not a proper answer, what to speak of a scientific
proposition.
Dr. Singh: Well, although they haven't been able to
create life so far, they say that soon they should be able to do so.
Srila Prabhupada: Any rascal may say that. If you
say, "In the future I shall be able to do something extraordinary," why
should I trust or believe you?
Dr. Singh: Well, the scientists say they have done
so much in the past and they will accomplish more in the future.
Srila Prabhupada: In the past there was death, and
people are dying now. So what have the scientists done?
Dr. Singh: Helped them.
Srila Prabhupada: Scientists have helped to minimize
the duration of life! Formerly men lived one hundred years; now they
seldom live more than sixty or seventy years. And the scientists have
discovered atomic energy; now they can kill millions of men. So they
have helped only in dying. They have not helped in living, and still
they dare to declare that they will create.
Dr. Singh: But now we have airplanes and—
Srila Prabhupada: The scientists cannot stop death,
they cannot stop birth, they cannot stop disease, and they cannot stop
old age. So what have they done? Formerly people used to become old,
and nowadays they are becoming old. Formerly people used to become
diseased, and now they are becoming diseased. Now there is more
medicine—and more disease. So what have they accomplished? Scientists
have not helped improve the order of the world. We are going to
challenge all the rascal scientists who say that life has grown out of
matter. The fact is that matter has grown from life.
The Illusion
of Progress
Srila
Prabhupada: How long can science cheat people? One hundred years,
two hundred years? They cannot cheat them for all time.
Dr. Singh: Cheating has been going on since time
immemorial, so perhaps they think they can continue forever.
Srila Prabhupada: Not since time immemorial! Science
has been cheating people for only the past two or three hundred years,
not before that.
Dr. Singh: Oh, really?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, for the last two hundred
years they have been preaching that life comes from matter—not for
thousands of years. And the cheating will be finished in another fifty
years.
Dr. Singh: Yes, now there is a so-called
anti-intellectual movement. People are rebelling against science and
modern progress.
Srila Prabhupada: And what is that science? It is
not science! It is ignorance. Ignorance is passing for science, and
irreligion is passing for religion. But this cheating cannot go on for
long, because some people are becoming intelligent.
Dr. Singh: In Newsweek, one of the
largest magazines in the United States, there was an article about the
degradation of Christianity. The article included a cartoon picturing
the devil causing earthquakes. There was recently a very large
earthquake in South America that killed many thousands of people. The
cartoon attributed such things to the devil, and right next to him it
showed Richard Nixon presenting himself as a follower of Christ but
bombing Southeast Asia. In this cartoon, the devil turned to Richard
Nixon and said, "It's hell keeping up with Christians."
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, people will criticize in that
way. People are becoming advanced. How long can they be cheated by
so-called science and so-called religion? If Mr. Nixon loves his
countrymen, why does he not love his country's cows? They are also born
in the same land, and they have the same right to live. Why are they
killed? "Thou shalt not kill." But the animals are being killed. That
is imperfection. Krishna embraces both the cows and Radharani. That is
perfection. Krishna even talks with the birds. One day on the bank of
the Yamuna River, He was talking with a bird, because He speaks even in
the languages of the birds. An old lady saw this and was struck with
wonder: "Oh, He is talking with a bird!"
Dr. Singh: You mean He was actually talking the way
the birds talk?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes. One of Krishna's qualities
described in the Vedas is that He can speak any language.
He is the father of all living beings, and the father can understand
the language of his children.
Krishna is the supreme enjoyer. Actually, except for those who are
Krishna conscious, no one can have any real knowledge, nor can anyone
enjoy. One simply suffers, but he thinks the suffering is enjoyment.
This is called maya, or illusion. In America people work hard
day and night, and they think, "I am enjoying." This is maya. A
conditioned soul cannot enjoy anything; he simply suffers, but he
thinks he is enjoying.
Therefore, in Srimad-Bhagavatam the conditioned soul is
likened to the camel. The camel is very fond of eating thorny twigs
that cut his tongue. While he is eating them, blood issues from his
tongue and mixes with the thorny twigs. They become a little tasty, and
he is thinking, "Oh, these twigs are very nice." That is called maya.
Maya means "that which is not." Ma means "not," and ya
means "this." So maya means "not this." That is the explanation
of maya, or illusion. The scientists are in maya
because they think they are improving things and becoming happy. But
this world, along with everything in it, will eventually be finished
because it is maya; it is not what we think it is. As Srimad-Bhagavatam
explains, the materialists are thinking they are becoming victorious,
but they are actually being defeated.
