We disagree that everyone should go through the same training. The spiritual master should judge the tendency or disposition of the student at the start of his education.

Absent from school

First point of knowledge: Not this body, but spirit soul

Prahlada Maharaja, a great devotee and authority in our line said, Krishna consciousness should be taught from the beginning of childhood. The defect of modern education is that the children are taught all nonsense things. They do not receive even the first point of knowledge, that I am pure spirit soul part and parcel of God. Everyone is interested in the body only, which is compared in Bhagavad gita to a dress, "As a person puts on new garments, giving up the old and useless ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.'' [Bhagavad-gita 2.22] this simple fact they have yet to learn. So if you can teach them just this one point it will be a great success, because this is the basic platform of advancing in spiritual understanding. If we want to read and write, then it is essential to learn first of all ABCs.

Whatever knowledge they have got now is on the platform of this body, which is a lump of matter only, there is no knowledge of the soul which is entrapped within the lump of matter, and so people are suffering because of ignorance of this simple point. So try to enlighten them on this point and make them happy....

One size does not fit all

SYAMASUNDAR: Plato believed that man's position is marginal—between matter and spirit—and therefore he also stressed the development of the body. He thought that everyone should be educated from an early age, and that part of that education should be gymnastics—to keep the body fit.

PRABHUPADA: This means that in practice Plato very strongly identified the self as the body. What was Plato's idea of education?

SYAMASUNDAR: To awaken the student to his natural position—whatever his natural abilities or talents are.

PRABHUPADA: And what is that natural position?

SYAMASUNDAR: The position of moral goodness. In other words, Plato thought everyone should be educated to work in whatever way is best suited to awaken his natural moral goodness.

PRABHUPADA: But moral goodness is not enough, because simple morality will not satisfy the soul. One has to go above morality—to Krishna consciousness. Of course, in this material world morality is taken as the highest principle, but there is another platform, which is called the transcendental (vasudeva) platform. Man's highest perfection is on that platform, and this is confirmed in Srimad-Bhagavatam. However, because Western philosophers have no information of the vasudeva platform, they consider the material mode of goodness to be the highest perfection and the end of morality. But in this world even moral goodness is infected by the lower modes of ignorance and passion. You cannot find pure goodness (shuddha-sattva) in this material world, for pure goodness is the transcendental platform. To come to the platform of pure goodness, which is the ideal, one has to undergo austerities (tapasa brahmacharyena shamena cha damena cha [Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.13]). One has to practice celibacy and control the mind and senses. If he has money, he should distribute it in charity. Also, one should always be very clean. In this way one can rise to the platform of pure goodness.

There is another process for coming to the platform of pure goodness—and that is Krishna consciousness. If one becomes Krishna conscious, all the good qualities automatically develop in him. Automatically he leads a life of celibacy, controls his mind and senses, and has a charitable disposition. In this age of Kali, people cannot possibly be trained to engage in austerity.

Formerly, a brahmachari [celibate student] would undergo austere training. Even though he might be from a royal or learned family, a brahmachari would humble himself and serve the spiritual master as a menial servant. He would immediately do whatever the spiritual master ordered. The brahmachari would beg alms from door to door and bring them to the spiritual master, claiming nothing for himself. Whatever he earned he would give to the spiritual master, because the spiritual master would not spoil the money by spending it for sense gratification—he would use it for Krishna. This is austerity. The brahmachari would also observe celibacy, and because he followed the directions of the spiritual master, his mind and senses were controlled.

Today, however, this austerity is very difficult to follow, so Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has given the process of taking to Krishna consciousness directly. In this case, one need simply chant Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare and follow the regulative principles given by the spiritual master. Then one immediately rises to the platform of pure goodness.

SYAMASUNDAR: Plato thought the state should train citizens to be virtuous. His system of education went like this: For the first three years of life, the child should play and strengthen his body. From three to six, the child should learn religious stories. From seven to ten, he should learn gymnastics; from ten to thirteen, reading and writing; from fourteen to sixteen, poetry and music; from sixteen to eighteen, mathematics. And from eighteen to twenty, he should undergo military drill. From twenty to thirty-five, those who are scientific and philosophical should remain in school and continue learning, and the warriors should engage in military exercises.

PRABHUPADA: Is this educational program for all men, or are there different types of education for different men?

SYAMASUNDAR: No, this is for everyone.

PRABHUPADA: This is not very good. If a boy is intelligent and inclined to philosophy and theology, why should he be forced to undergo military training?

SYAMASUNDAR: Well, Plato said that everyone should undergo two years of military drill.

PRABHUPADA: But why should someone waste two years? No one should waste even two days. This is nonsense—imperfect ideas.

SYAMASUNDAR: Plato said this type of education reveals what category a person belongs to. He did have the right idea that one belongs to a particular class according to his qualification.

PRABHUPADA: Yes, that we also say, but we disagree that everyone should go through the same training. The spiritual master should judge the tendency or disposition of the student at the start of his education. He should be able to see whether a boy is fit for military training, administration, or philosophy, and then he should fully train the boy according to his particular tendency. If one is naturally inclined to philosophical study, why should he waste his time in the military? And if one is naturally inclined to military training, why should he waste his time with other things? Arjuna belonged to a kshatriya [warrior] family. He and his brothers were never trained as philosophers. Dronacharya was their master and teacher, and although he was a brahmana, he taught them Dhanur Veda [military science], not brahma-vidya. Brahma-vidya is theistic philosophy. No one should be trained in everything; that is a waste of time. If one is inclined toward production, business, or agriculture, he should be trained in those fields. If one is philosophical, he should be trained as a philosopher. If one is militaristic, he should be trained as a warrior. And if one has ordinary ability, he should remain a shudra, or laborer. This is stated by Narada Muni in Srimad-Bhagavatam: yasya yal-lakshanam proktam. The four classes of society are recognized by their symptoms and qualifications. Narada Muni also says that one should be selected for training according to his qualifications. Even if one is born in a brahmana family, he should be considered a shudra if his qualifications are those of a shudra. And if one is born in a shudra family, he should be taken as a brahmana if his symptoms are brahminical. The spiritual master should be expert enough to recognize the tendencies of the student and immediately train him in that line. This is perfect education.

SYAMASUNDAR: Plato believed that the student's natural tendency wouldn't come out unless he practiced everything.

PRABHUPADA: No, that is wrong—because the soul is continuous, and therefore everyone has some tendency from his previous birth. I think Plato didn't realize this continuity of the soul from body to body. According to the Vedic culture, immediately after a boy's birth astrologers should calculate what category he belongs to. Astrology can help if there is a first-class astrologer. Such an astrologer can tell what line a boy is coming from and how he should be trained. Plato's method of education was imperfect because it was based on speculation.

SYAMASUNDAR: Plato observed that a particular combination of the three modes of nature is acting in each individual.

PRABHUPADA: Then why did he say that everyone should be trained in the same way?

SYAMASUNDAR: Because he claimed that the person's natural abilities will not manifest unless he is given a chance to try everything. He saw that some people listen primarily to their intelligence, and he said they are governed by the head. He saw that some people have an aggressive disposition, and he said such courageous types are governed by the heart—by passion. And he saw that some people, who are inferior, simply want to feed their appetites. He said these people are animalistic, and he believed they are governed by the liver.

PRABHUPADA: That is not a perfect description. Everyone has a liver, a heart, and all the bodily limbs. Whether one is in the mode of goodness, passion, or ignorance depends on one's training and on the qualities he acquired during his previous life. According to the Vedic process, at birth one is immediately given a classification. Psychological and physical symptoms are considered, and generally it is ascertained from birth that a child has a particular tendency. However, this tendency may change according to circumstances, and if one does not fulfill his assigned role, he can be transferred to another class. One may have had brahminical training in a previous life, and he may exhibit brahminical symptoms in this life, but one should not think that because he has taken birth in a brahmana family he is automatically a brahmana. A person may be born in a brahmana family and be a shudra. It is a question not of birth but of qualification.

SYAMASUNDAR: Plato also believed that one must qualify for his post. His system of government was very democratic. He thought everyone should be given a chance to occupy the different posts.

PRABHUPADA: Actually, we are the most democratic because we are giving everyone a chance to become a first-class brahmana. The Krishna consciousness movement is giving even the lowest member of society a chance to become a brahmana by becoming Krishna conscious. Chandalo 'pi dvija-shreshtho hari-bhakti-parayanah: Although one may be born in a family of chandalas [dog-eaters], as soon as he becomes God conscious, Krishna conscious, he can be elevated to the highest position. Krishna says that everyone can go back home, back to Godhead. Samo 'ham sarva-bhuteshu: [Bhagavad-gita 9.29] "I am equal to everyone. Everyone can come to Me. There is no hindrance."

SYAMASUNDAR: What is the purpose of the social orders and the state government?

PRABHUPADA: The ultimate purpose is to make everyone Krishna conscious. That is the perfection of life, and the entire social structure should be molded with this aim in view. Of course, not everyone can become fully Krishna conscious in one lifetime, just as not all students in a university can attain the Ph.D. degree in one attempt. But the idea of perfection is to pass the Ph.D. examination, and therefore the Ph.D. courses should be maintained. Similarly, an institution like this Krishna consciousness movement should be maintained so that at least some people can attain and everyone can approach the ultimate goal—Krishna consciousness.