First of all, the government is cheating. He is giving me paper in the name of money, and forcing me to accept it.

Poorest Billionaires

Living without money

PRABHUPADA: Government means you, like rascal fools like you. So how you will take care?

HARIKESA: When it is properly set up.

PRABHUPADA: First of all you see the government, what is government? Government means a pack of rascals and fools. That's all. This is modern government. All these thieves and rogues are voted to be government men. So how you expect good government? It is not possible. "People's government." All people are rascals. That means government rascal. People's government.

HARIKESA: How would the other necessities of life be taken care of, like medical things? If actually they have no knowledge, and they have to require to build these gigantic hospitals...

PRABHUPADA: The brahmanas, the brahmanas will give you medical help. Ayur-Veda. They will read Ayur-Veda. They will give help.

HARIKESA: So the Ayur-Veda possibly can work nowadays?

PRABHUPADA: Why not?

HARIKESA: Some people were telling me that the herbs had lost all their effectiveness in the Kali-yuga.

PRABHUPADA: Then die. [laughter] Do you mean to say this modern medical treatment is guarantee for your living?

HARIKESA: No.

PRABHUPADA: Then? That is also not guarantee. If you see the herbs and plants are no more effective, then if there is no guarantee in your modern medical, there is no guarantee. So why should you spend so much money? As soon as I go to a doctor, immediately twenty dollars. As soon as go to purchase some drugs, immediately twenty. If I have no money... And still that is not guarantee, so why shall I spend so much money?

HARIKESA: So actually this money doesn't even exist in Vedic society—money?

PRABHUPADA: Money is not required. You require things. Just like instead of money, you are getting papers. Money means gold. Where is gold? You are cheated. Money means gold. So instead of possessing gold, you are possessing some paper, written there, "hundred dollars." And you are such a fool, you are satisfied. You are being cheated. Bank's cheque and currency notes, you keep it in your..., "Oh, here is my money." Is that money? Just see.

DEVOTEE: They only do that to make it easier for them, because they've got so much money that they can't carry it...

PRABHUPADA: That's all right, but actually it is not money. You are befooled. You are such a fool that you accept a piece of paper as money. Therefore I say you are rascal. That is my business. If I say "Government, give me gold," and government has passed law, "No, you cannot possess gold," that means cheating. How I shall keep gold, that is my business. First of all you give me gold. It is due to me. But you are giving me paper. That means cheating is begun from you.

HARIKESA: How will the government decide what my gold is and what his gold is? How does the gold get distributed?

PRABHUPADA: Gold coins. Formerly there was gold coins. We have seen in our childhood gold coins, silver coins. There was no paper.

HARIKESA: But you have to do something to get it.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. I will have to do something. That is another thing. But why you are cheating me? Instead of gold, you are giving me paper. Formerly... You have seen in KRSNA book that one fruit man came, and Krishna was taking some grain. It was falling down. So that was the... A fruit man come, and you give him a packet of grain. Then whatever exchange is possible, the fruit man gives you fruit. That's all.

PUSTA KRSNA: That is called bartering.

PRABHUPADA: Bartering. So there is no need of money. Similarly, you go to another shop. You get. So you produce your food, and in exchange, in barter, you get all things, other things. Somebody is producing something, somebody is producing something. But it can be done. Suppose I am a blacksmith. You want some work from me. So you say that "Make this instrument for me." So I say, "You give me one kg paddy." So you give me one kg, I prepare you, so your necessity is fulfilled. Now I have got so much paddy. Now, I may go to purchase something else because I am blacksmith, so grains will be used for my eating, and for, say for ghee, I take the same grain somewhere. So where is the money need of?

HARIKESA: It's very difficult to cheat in that system. It's very difficult to cheat.

PRABHUPADA: Cheat?

HARIKESA: In a system of bartering it's very hard to cheat.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. There is no cheating. Everyone is simply simple, honest. And here the government begins cheating. He is engaging you to hard work day and night and paying you a piece of paper, where it is written "one hundred dollars." That's all. This is your society, cheating and cheater. That's all.

HARIKESA: People have a hard time understanding that point, because with a hundred dollar note you can buy things.

PRABHUPADA: Therefore I say you are all rascals. You do not know. If I say, the government may arrest me that I am infusing people in a different way. But that is the fact.

HARIKESA: So a government's duty would be to abolish this false standard of money, and then automatically...

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Government's only duty is that government gives me land and I pay tax: "Whatever I produce, take one fourth." Finish. All taxes. If I don't produce, there is no tax. That's all. That is the business between the government and the public. That's all.

HARIKESA: If the public are giving like one quarter of a perishable item, what does the government do with that? Let's say they were growing some vegetables, so they give one quarter of that to the government. What would the government do with that? They've got so many tons of vegetables.

PRABHUPADA: Yes.

HARIKESA: And everybody is taken care of, because they are growing it.

PRABHUPADA: After all, vegetable will be eaten by somebody. So let government distribute there. Vegetable, grains, fruits, milk, ghee, yogurt, natural produce—they will be used by somebody. The government may store and distribute, those who are in need. That's all.

PUSTA KRSNA: Maybe somebody is only producing gold or gold plates, or somebody is producing something that isn't food. So he would give that to the government.

PRABHUPADA: Well, gold plates, that is not a necessary thing. He can eat on plantain leaf, natural production. That is luxury. So when people live simple life, the luxuries will no more be required.

PUSTA KRSNA: Let's say the government is building some wells or some roads. They could feed the people who are doing that, shudras who are doing that.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Shudras, that "You dig this well and take your food." That's all. Work will go on. At the present moment I require one scissor. I can go to the blacksmith and pay him some grain. He will give me. Now they are producing, Krupp Company in Germany, millions of razor, millions of scissors. Now they will have to find market, where to sell. And as soon as goes to sell in India, the British government—"No, no. You cannot sell." Then he becomes angry: "Oh, all right." He declares war.

PUSTA KRSNA: So complex.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. This is going on. "These Britishers do not allow me to go there? All right, kill them." That was the Hitler policy and Kaiser's policy, to kill British Empire. They did it. They were successful. But they were also killed. This is going on, unnecessary. Why you produce so much razor and scissor? And then find out market, and when there is competition, there is anger, there is enviousness, there is fight, one after another, one after another. Where is peace? Why do you produce so many unnecessarily? Why do you produce so many cars, when there is scarcity of power, and fight with Arabians? Anartha. Therefore it is called anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopasamam sakshad bhakti-yogam adhokshaje [Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.7.6]. As soon as people will be devotee, they will not require unnecessary things. They will be satisfied, simply bare necessities of life. That is peaceful condition. You create unnecessary needs of life, and then there is competition, there is hellish life, the factory, and then the factory man requires wine to forget his hard labor, so on, so on. Then he become thieves. He become rogues. This is your society. How you can expect peace?

PUSTA KRSNA: The only solution is Krishna consciousness.

PRABHUPADA: That's it, only solution.

HARIKESA: It also seems like the only government that would work would be the Vedic government. Varnashrama-dharma is the only thing that will work.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Krishna conscious government means Vedic government.

PUSTA KRSNA: We have histories that for millions of years such governments were working successfully. Now, for a few thousand years, they squabble, this type of government, that type of government.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. No, first of all, the government is cheating. He is giving me paper in the name of money, and forcing me to accept it.