Animals do not have developed consciousness by which to recognize the Lord, but a human being is sufficiently intelligent to take lessons from the Vedic literature and thereby know how the laws of nature are working and derive profit out of such knowledge.

Natural Consequences

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When is it enough?

YOUNG MAN: We were brought up as Mohammedans.

PRABHUPADA: So what is the conception of God in Islam?

YOUNG MAN: Even as a Mohammedan, I didn't have very good teaching. My teachers didn't know the Koran very well, and therefore they gave me no concept of God when I was a child. I don't know what the Mohammedan concept of God is.

PRABHUPADA: Any one of you cannot explain? You have got?

YOUNG MAN: I think it's the all-powerful one who's omnipotent, the same as in all religions. There is one God.

PRABHUPADA: So His form... What is the form?

YOUNG MAN: What is His form? He created the world...

PRABHUPADA: That is His action. What is His form?

YOUNG MAN: A heavenly being.

YOUNG MAN (2): There is no form given for God. It's spiritual.

PRABHUPADA: The description must be there.

GIRL: He's a human being. He's got a human form.

PRABHUPADA: That I am asking, what is the form?

YOUNG MAN: Well, the only thing... It just says that He created man after His own image. So...

PRABHUPADA: That is the Christian idea.

YOUNG MAN: Yeah. And the...

PRABHUPADA: The Mohammedan, Islam is also same idea?

YOUNG MAN: Well, since the Old Testament, part of the Old Testament, is very similar to the Koran, I presume the creation of Adam, that bit, is also taken from the Old Testament. But He is projected as a great judge really, a supreme judge.

PRABHUPADA: Yes, He must be the supreme judge because He is Supreme Being. So He is not only... Supreme judge means supreme knowledge.

YOUNG MAN: Yes. Somehow in modern religion they very much emphasize on the fact that He judges. And I could never accept that idea for example, that the Supreme Being judges, because judging is a low activity. It's a... Spiritual people don't judge. So how come...

PRABHUPADA: Spiritual...?

YOUNG MAN: Leader.

PRABHUPADA: They do not judge?

YOUNG MAN: That's what I thought.

PRABHUPADA: No, judgment is there everywhere. Unless there is judgment, how you can discriminate, "This is spiritual; this is material"? Judgment must be there for intelligent person. Otherwise how you can distinguish? We are distinguishing every moment — "This is good. This is bad" — in the relative world. So there is judgment. So God — the supreme judge. So as soon as there is question of judgment, then what is our position? There must be good and bad, so that if we have lived a very nice, good life, then by the judgment of God we get better position. And if we have not done so, then you get degraded position. Therefore, for human being it is very sanguine to understand how we are going to be judged by the Supreme. So if we are following the rules and regulation given by God, then the judgment will be better. And if we are not following the laws, the judgment will not be in favor. This is natural to conclude. Then we have to judge what is sin, what is piety, how to be pious, how one becomes sinful. So many things will come.

ATREYA RISHI: Do the laws of nature also make distinction, Prabhupada?

PRABHUPADA: Laws of nature means laws of God. It is executed through the machine of nature.

ATREYA RISHI: And that machine also makes distinction, doesn't it?

PRABHUPADA: No.

ATREYA RISHI: No judgment?

PRABHUPADA: The machine... Just like I push certain button, it acts in a certain way. I push another button it acts in another way. Just like computer machine. It is a very complicated machine, but it does not act automatically. One man who knows, he puts the button and it acts.

YOUNG MAN: If the laws of nature are the laws of God, then how is it that sometimes they're even crueler than the actions..., they are more violent than the actions which ordinary men do, than that of a tyrant or a murderer?

PRABHUPADA: No, no. Rules... God's rules are perfect, and it is being perfectly done. Sometimes we misunderstand.

YOUNG MAN: Then how do we take the meaning of earthquakes and natural disasters which could destroy the lives of pure people as well as impure people?

PRABHUPADA: No, every life is pure. The body is pure and impure. So anyway, after destruction, the life is not destroyed. Na hanyate hanyamane sharire [Bhagavad-gita 2.20]. The destruction of body does not mean that the soul is destroyed. No. He gets another body. The body is... one body is destroyed, and he transmigrates to another body. And so far your question about the earthquake, so suppose if there is plane crash, there are many good men, bad men, so everyone is crashed. But the good man gets a good body again; the bad man gets a bad body again.

YOUNG MAN: The good man gets a better body or a good body?

PRABHUPADA: Good, better or worse, bad, according to his karma. Just like your shirt. You throw away on account of being old. Now you have to purchase another. But there are many varieties of shirt-coat. As you pay for it, you get. If you can pay nice price, you get silk shirt-coat. But if you cannot, you get ordinary cotton or jute. So your body will be according to your karma, or work.

So these things have to be learned first, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul. I am changing my body, and this is botheration." So if there is any way to stop this changing, that is required. That... That is possible to be done in this human form of life.

YOUNG MAN: Is there any chance to understand how the Absolute thinks?

PRABHUPADA: Yes, this is the chance, human body. If you want to know, you can know. Here is the chance.

YOUNG MAN: Is there a way of knowing that the body you inhabited before was of a inferior quality than the one you're inhabiting now, or...

PRABHUPADA: Inferior quality, just like cats and dog. That is inferior quality.

YOUNG MAN: Yeah, is there a way of knowing whether you're on the way up or you're falling?

PRABHUPADA: Yes. You... Just like you infect some disease. Then it is sure that you are going to grow that disease. And if you don't infect, then you don't grow that disease. Do you know this, infection? Disease infection?

YOUNG MAN: Yes.

PRABHUPADA: So, if you don't infect a certain disease, then you don't grow it. And if you infect... Therefore you must know or you must know the rules and regulation, how you can save yourself from infection. If you are ignorant and if you infect some disease, epidemic, then you have to suffer. If you remain disinfected, then you don't get inferior body, you get superior body, in other planets. Or you can go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore I said that this Krishna consciousness movement is for purification so that you may not get infected by the material modes. Therefore we advise our student four regulative principles: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. Plus chanting the holy name of God. Then you remain immune from the infection. And that you will feel practically also, if you adopt the means. Now it is up to us to decide whether I shall continue the life of infection or I shall remain immune from all infection. That is your decision. Better we should remain immune from all kinds of infection, and that is Krishna consciousness. Sa gunan samatityaitan [Bg. 14.26].

mam cha yo 'vyabhicharena
bhakti-yogena yah sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]

"One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman."

The purport?

PARAMAHAMSA: [reads:] "This verse is a reply to Arjuna's third question: What is the means of attaining to the transcendental position?"

PRABHUPADA: So everything is explained. One has to learn it very carefully.

YOUNG MAN: If one does not lose one's identity when one is returned to the Godhead, what is the nature of the relationship?

PRABHUPADA: Servant. God is supreme, we are all subordinate. God is maintaining us just like father maintains. So it is the duty of the son to be obedient to the father, to act according to his order. Then everything is perfect. At the present moment, on account of this bodily concept of life, every one of us thinking nationality and duty of nation, duty of the community, duty of the family, so many duties. But actually we, being spiritual, our only duty is to serve God. We are serving; everyone is serving. That is our constitutional position, to serve. But at the present moment we are serving maya, illusion, and we have to be trained up to serve the Supreme Being. Then our life is perfect.

At the present moment, although there are many religious system, they have no clear conception of God, although religion means to approach God. There is no religion throughout the whole world which is not connected with the word "God". So religion means to understand God. But if we have no clear conception of God, then the religion is defective. Do you admit it or not? Religion means to understand God or God's laws. That is religion. But if we do not understand what is God, then that religion is also defective. So far our position is, we are approaching directly God through His agent, and our conception of God is there in the temple worship or our working for God. But we have got no vague idea of God. We have got complete idea: Krishna. You want to speak anything?

YOUNG MAN: What is the Krishna conscious outlook on other world religions?

PRABHUPADA: They have got simply an idea that there is God, but what is that God, they have no clear conception. Just like I asked, "What is the conception of God in Islam?" You could not give us. You simply described some of His activities.

YOUNG MAN: That's true.

PRABHUPADA: Yes.

YOUNG MAN: All the religions that have been taught to me have not given me a clear view of God, a clear concept. They didn't seem to know it themself.

PRABHUPADA: No, concept is there as you told me: "The God has made human being after His own image." Then we can get the idea that God is a person like a human being, He has got two hands, two legs, one head, because after His image we have been... Now, if we study ourself and increase that quality... Just like I am. I can eat. I can eat a certain amount of foodstuff, but God can also eat, but He can eat the whole universe. So eating is there. But the difference of eating is there also. I can create one airplane, but God has created very, very big airplanes like these planets, and they are floating in the sky without any power crisis. That is God's creation. Here we are floating the airplane or running the car with the power, petrol, given by God. You cannot manufacture petrol. Just like in your country there is enough stock of petrol. But you have not created it. So who has created? Your creative power is to drill and get the stock. So much creative power you have got. But you cannot create petrol. Then the Americans would not have come here to beg petrol. That is the difference. You can create something by the ingredients given by God. You can create this table. Because wood is given by God, the instrument is given by God, and the intelligence given by God, the hand is given by God, so in this way you create the table. Then whose property it will be, your property or God's property? Whose property? If I give you wood, instrument, your salary, and you create something, the ultimately the thing created, to whom it should belong? To you or to me?

YOUNG MAN: To you if you're...

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Therefore everything belongs to God. The petrol belongs to God; the land belongs to God; we also belong to God. But because we have forgotten God, there is crisis. Therefore, if you want peace, then you must accept here this principle that everything belongs to God. That is Vedic information. Ishavasyam idam sarvam. Ishopanishad. You have read our Ishopanishad?

YOUNG MAN: I have read some of it.

PRABHUPADA: Here is the Ishopanishad. Ishavasyam idam sarvam. [To devotee:] Read that verse.

SRUTAKIRTI: [reads:]

ishavasyam idam sarvam
yat kiñcha jagatyam jagat
tena tyaktena bhuñjitha
ma gridhah kasya svid dhanam [Ishopanishad mantra 1]

"Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one must not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong."

PRABHUPADA: Explanation.

SRUTAKIRTI: [reads:]

Purport
Vedic knowledge is infallible because it comes down through the perfect disciplic succession of spiritual masters, beginning with the Lord Himself. Since He spoke the first word of Vedic knowledge, the source of this knowledge is transcendental. The words spoken by the Lord are called apaurusheya, which indicates that they are not delivered by any mundane person. A living being who lives in the mundane world has four defects: (1) he is certain to commit mistakes; (2) he is subject to illusion; (3) he has a propensity to cheat others; and (4) his senses are imperfect. No one with these four imperfections can deliver perfect knowledge. The Vedas are not produced by such an imperfect creature. Vedic knowledge was originally imparted by the Lord into the heart of Brahma, the first created living being, and Brahma in his turn disseminated this knowledge to his sons and disciples, who have handed it down through history. Since the Lord is purnam, all-perfect, there is no possibility of His being subjected to the laws of material nature, which He controls. However, both the living entities and inanimate objects are controlled by the laws of nature and ultimately by the Lord's potency. This Ishopanishad is part of the Yajur Veda, and consequently it contains information concerning the proprietorship of all things existing within the universe.

The Lord's proprietorship over everything within the universe is confirmed in the Seventh Chapter of the Bhagavad-gita (7.4-5), where para and apara prakriti are discussed. The elements of nature — earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and ego — all belong to the Lord's inferior, material energy (apara prakriti), whereas the living being, the organic energy, is His superior energy (para prakriti). Both of these prakritis, or energies, are emanations from the Lord, and ultimately He is the controller of everything that exists. There is nothing in the universe that does not belong to either the para or the apara prakriti; therefore everything is the property of the Supreme Being.

Because the Supreme Being, the Absolute Personality of Godhead, is the complete person, He has complete and perfect intelligence to adjust everything by means of His different potencies. The Supreme Being is often compared to a fire, and everything organic and inorganic is compared to the heat and light of that fire. Just as fire distributes energy in the form of heat and light, the Lord displays His energy in different ways. He thus remains the ultimate controller, sustainer and dictator of everything. He is the possessor of all potencies, the knower of everything and the benefactor of everyone. He is full of inconceivable opulence, power, fame, beauty, knowledge and renunciation.

One should therefore be intelligent enough to know that except for the Lord no one is a proprietor of anything. One should accept only those things that are set aside by the Lord as his quota. The cow, for instance, gives milk, but she does not drink that milk: she eats grass and straw, and her milk is designated as food for human beings. Such is the arrangement of the Lord. Thus we should be satisfied with those things He has kindly set aside for us, and we should always consider to whom those things we possess actually belong.

Take, for example, our dwelling, which is made of earth, wood, stone, iron, cement and so many other material things. If we think in terms of Sri Ishopanishad, we must know that we cannot produce any of these building materials ourselves. We can simply bring them together and transform them into different shapes by our labor. A laborer cannot claim to be a proprietor of a thing just because he has worked hard to manufacture it.

In modern society there is always a great quarrel between the laborers and the capitalists. This quarrel has taken an international shape, and the world is in danger. Men face one another in enmity and snarl just like cats and dogs. Sri Ishopanishad cannot give advice to the cats and dogs, but it can deliver the message of Godhead to man through the bona fide acharyas (holy teachers). The human race should take the Vedic wisdom of Sri Ishopanishad and not quarrel over material possessions. One must be satisfied with whatever privileges are given to him by the mercy of the Lord. There can be no peace if the communists or capitalists or any other party claims proprietorship over the resources of nature, which are entirely the property of the Lord. The capitalists cannot curb the communists simply by political maneuvering, nor can the communists defeat the capitalists simply by fighting for stolen bread. If they do not recognize the proprietorship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all the property they claim to be their own is stolen. Consequently they will be liable to punishment by the laws of nature. Nuclear bombs are in the hands of both communists and capitalists, and if both do not recognize the proprietorship of the Supreme Lord, it is certain that these bombs will ultimately ruin both parties. Thus in order to save themselves and bring peace to the world, both parties must follow the instructions of Sri Ishopanishad.

Human beings are not meant to quarrel like cats and dogs. They must be intelligent enough to realize the importance and aim of human life. The Vedic literature is meant for humanity and not for cats and dogs. Cats and dogs can kill other animals for food without incurring sin, but if a man kills an animal for the satisfaction of his uncontrolled taste buds, he is responsible for breaking the laws of nature. Consequently he must be punished. The standard of life for human beings cannot be applied to animals. The tiger does not eat rice and wheat or drink cow's milk, because he has been given food in the shape of animal flesh. Among the many animals and birds, some are vegetarian and others are carnivorous, but none of them transgress the laws of nature, which have been ordained by the will of the Lord. Animals, birds, reptiles and other lower life forms strictly adhere to the laws of nature; therefore there is no question of sin for them, nor are the Vedic instructions meant for them. Human life alone is a life of responsibility.

It is wrong, however, to think that simply by becoming a vegetarian one can avoid transgressing the laws of nature. Vegetables also have life, and while it is nature's law that one living being is meant to feed on another, for human beings the point is to recognize the Supreme Lord. Thus one should not be proud of being a strict vegetarian. Animals do not have developed consciousness by which to recognize the Lord, but a human being is sufficiently intelligent to take lessons from the Vedic literature and thereby know how the laws of nature are working and derive profit out of such knowledge. If a man neglects the instructions of the Vedic literature, his life becomes very risky. A human being is therefore required to recognize the authority of the Supreme Lord and become His devotee. He must offer everything for the Lord's service and partake only of the remnants of food offered to the Lord. This will enable him to discharge his duty properly. In the Bhagavad-gita (9.26) the Lord directly states that He accepts vegetarian food from the hands of a pure devotee. Therefore a human being should not only become a strict vegetarian but should also become a devotee of the Lord, offer the Lord all his food and then partake of such prasadam, or the mercy of God. Only those who act in this way can properly discharge the duties of human life. Those who do not offer their food to the Lord eat nothing but sin and subject themselves to various types of distress, which are the results of sin (Bg. 3.13).

The root of sin is deliberate disobedience of the laws of nature through disregarding the proprietorship of the Lord. Disobeying the laws of nature or the order of the Lord brings ruin to a human being. Conversely, one who is sober, who knows the laws of nature, and who is not influenced by unnecessary attachment or aversion is sure to be recognized by the Lord and thus become eligible to go back to Godhead, back to the eternal home.

PRABHUPADA: This is the summary of God consciousness.