Unemployment indicates that we are not serving Krishna. With Krishna, there is no unemployment.

We've got a job for you

You have to serve in any case, so why not serve Krishna?

Why not join this movement and take a job with Krishna? Everyone's job is to serve Krishna. Everyone is Krishna's servant. Material life means to look for some means of support outside of Krishna. Because everyone is trying to be independent of Krishna, he has to create some means for his income. This is maya [illusion]. There is no need to work; only the need to serve Krishna and thus solve all problems.

Everywhere people are working hard, but they are not happy, because their work has nothing to do with Krishna. When the hand gives food to the stomach, it receives nourishment from the stomach. The hand is part and parcel of the body, and naturally when it serves the body, the hand is also served. So similarly, as parts and parcels of Krishna, we are also served by serving Krishna.

In material life, everyone tries to serve himself, but that is not possible, because the living entity is not independent. Everyone is part and parcel of Krishna. We cannot enjoy independently of Krishna; we enjoy when Krishna enjoys. When our service satisfies Krishna, we are satisfied. This is the pleasure principle.

Now there is unemployment, because we are trying to maintain a situation that is separate from Krishna. Unemployment indicates that we are not serving Krishna. With Krishna, there is no unemployment. We are all servants of Krishna, and we can solve the unemployment problem by serving Krishna.

Krishna can take care of everyone, but no one wants to surrender to Krishna; everyone wants to be independent and take care of himself. This desire creates the material world. We are creating artificial needs such as telephones, typewriters and tape recorders. We do not need these things, but we maintain ourselves by creating the need, then creating and exchanging commodities. This is artificial. We need only something to eat, a place to sleep, and we need to protect ourselves. God is providing the actual necessities of life, but our present economy is based on unnecessarily producing items for sense gratification. Now there is recession, inflation, depression and so many problems, whereas in Krishna consciousness there is no such thing as recession, inflation or depression, because we depend on the real source. Krishna is actually the source of everything, and when we become dependent on Krishna, our problems will be solved. We have to depend on someone. One man goes to a clothing factory, another man goes to an auto factory, and another man goes to a construction company, but a devotee goes to Krishna—"All right, Krishna, I am surrendering unto You. Please take charge of my life. I am Your servant, so do whatever You like with me." That is the attitude of Krishna's devotee. He thinks, "Krishna, now what do You want me to do?" The devotee understands that Krishna will take care of him. We work for a company with the understanding that the company will take care of us. Certainly no company is greater than Krishna's company.

A situation conducive to self-realization

GUEST: You said that we are not trying to establish a varnashram society, but a community of devotees. What is the difference?

HANSADUTTA: Ultimately, Krishna consciousness has nothing to do with varnashram-dharma. Our real aim is to revive our original love of God. But right now the atmosphere is so polluted that we have to create a social order so that people can begin to hear our message. People are in anxiety, they are disturbed, and they are diseased. We have to create a situation in which they can hear about Krishna consciousness. The temple provides an atmosphere in which a person who comes feels peaceful. Then is is ready to hear something about Krishna. When we preach in foreign countries, especially in third-world countries, people cannot hear anything about our philosophy, because they are hungry. They do not even have enough to eat. Therefore we have to first of all arrange that they get some food and a place to live, then they will be able to hear our philosophy.

GUEST: Are you saying that varnashram-dharma is a useful system to establish some attraction for Krishna consciousness, but when this has been achieved, varnashram-dharma will no longer be necessary?

HANSADUTTA: Varnashram-dharma is a material arrangement for living in a peaceful and prosperous way in this material world. Varnashram-dharma itself is not the goal of Bhagavad-gita or Srimad-Bhagavatam. The real goal is to develop love of God. To help people to assimilate the ideas and philosophy of Krishna consciousness, there must be some situation in which they can live peacefully.

Devotees are creating farm communities where people can come and live to become Krishna conscious. We anticipate a collapse of the present economic and social system, and we are starting these communities so that at the time of collapse and disaster people will be able to live and practice Krishna consciousness.

GUEST: Will these communities be set up as in the varnashram system?

HANSADUTTA: Yes, as close to it as possible. We should know the standard of human or social behavior. We should know what the topmost standard is, and we should try to live according to that standard, because that makes it easier for us to pursue Krishna consciousness. Presently, people cannot pursue Krishna consciousness because they are always harassed by some economic or social problem.

GUEST: What do you see as the standard? What will be our life style in order for us to have time and no hassle over economics and politics?

HANSADUTTA: We have to learn how to live independently of this artificial standard of wealth and government. Everything in our society is artificial. We have to learn to live by being self-sufficient.

GUEST: I know people—the Menonites, the Amish and hippie communities—who are doing that, and they spend so much time and labor to grow their own food and make their own cloth. Nowadays it takes a little bit of technology, because people do not know some of the primitive arts. For example, we have to use an electric razor to shave the sheep, because we do not know how to do it by hand.

HANSADUTTA: You will have to learn how to do it.

GUEST: We could spend years learning these trades that other civilizations just pass down from generation to generation. From the time the child is born he learns these arts, whereas we are already twenty and thirty years old.

HANSADUTTA: It is a grave situation. Circumstances are dictating that you will have to learn all these things. Necessity is the mother of invention.

GUEST: Even though it may consume the majority of our time, should we consider this learning, the labor that it takes to survive, as devotional service?

HANSADUTTA: As long as we are in the material world, there will be certain material necessities that we have to meet. We should try to meet them in the simplest and most expedient way. Varnashram-dharma serves that purpose. Not everyone will be growing food. Not everyone will be a warrior. Not everyon will be a brahmana. Those who have natural inclinations for producing food, cloth and other commodities should be encouraged to do so as a service to the rest of the community. Those who are inclined to f ight and organize should be encouraged to do so. Those who are inclined towards brahminical life also should be encouraged to do that. The different orders of social life should work cooperatively to save time so that everyone can pursue Krishna consciousness.

We want to establish a Krishna conscious society. Meeting the material necessities is part of social life. Ideally, we want to meet those necessities with the least amount of effort. That means to work cooperatively—each order contributes its particular service for the benefit of the whole. In this respect, varnashram-dharma is communism in its pure form. Srila Prabhupada used to call it "pure communism". Communism means that everyone cooperates. The word "communism" comes from the word "community"—it is community-ism. The aim of spiritual communism is just to supply the material necessities so that we can concentrate on becoming self-realized and go back home, back to Godhead.

GUEST: But it is not that we should do a poor job so that we shall have to put more work into it in two years or even ten years. If we are going to put a roof on a house, then we should put one on that will last.

HANSADUTTA: We should do everything first class.

GUEST: We need knowledge in all these areas.

HANSADUTTA: The people who have the knowledge are already there. Make them devotees. It is not that we have to learn everything. We have to learn only one thing: Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We should teach this to others, and whatever they know will be useful in establishing the ideal of varnashram-dharma.