They have got simply that barrel of gun. That's all. And that is very rude. And it will never come to perfection. For the temporary time, this party may win or that party may win. That will never...

Conflict Without Resolution

Looking down the barrel of a gun

SHYAMASUNDAR: His idea is that all political power comes out of the barrel of a gun. Comes from the barrel of a gun.

PRABHUPADA: Because he is rude. He cannot have that there may be, amongst the sober gentlemen, the gun is reasoning. And for the crude rascals argumentum vaculam. Of course, the gun reason is sometimes needed when the other party is completely animal. But if both of them are animals, then what further decision can come? You see? Therefore our conclusion is taken from shastra. The gun is used also in terms of shastra. Just like Krishna first of all wanted to settle up the fight, the opposing elements, the Kurus and Pandavas. He personally became a messenger and personally requested Duryodhana that "All right. Settle up things. They are kshatriyas [warriors]. They cannot take up the business of a brahmana or a vaishya. Give them five villages, let them rule, and they will be satisfied." But he said, "Oh, what to speak of five villages, I cannot spare that small portion of land which can hold the tip of a needle." Then Krishna said, "Yes. Then you do not come to reason? Then let us turn to weapon." So this shastra [meaning scripture] and shastra [meaning weapon]. When shastra [scriptural authority] fails, then according to shastra, there is shastra [weapon]. Shastra means weapon. Both of them come from the shas-dhatu [same root word]. Shas-dhatu, from shas-dhatu we take shastra, shastra, shasana, shishya, like that. It is coming from the same root.

SHYAMASUNDAR: What is that root?

PRABHUPADA: Shas. Shas means control. From shas-dhatu... shishya means who voluntarily accepts the spiritual master's ruling. That is called shishya, disciple. From the same shas-dhatu. The spiritual master rules over him according to shastra, and he accepts voluntarily. So conflict there is, but the mediator is shas.

SHYAMASUNDAR: Controller.

PRABHUPADA: Controller. Otherwise, there is no end of struggle if you don't accept an authorized mediator.

SHYAMASUNDAR: This Mao Tse Tung...

PRABHUPADA: And Krishna also says in the Bhagavad-gita, yah shastra-vidhim. Shastra from that shas-dhatu. Yah shastra-vidhim utsrijya, giving it up, decides by his whims, na siddhim avapnoti, they'll never get any siddhi, perfection. Therefore the shastra [here meaning scripture] should be mediator. But these people have no shastras. They have got simply that barrel of gun. That's all. And that is very rude. And it will never come to perfection. For the temporary time, this party may win or that party may win. That will never... That is the position in the modern world. They have no authoritative shastra. They manufacture their own way, and therefore there is no peace. First World War, Second World War, Third World War, and there cannot be any peace. As soon as you become strong, you declare war. Hitler thought, "I am now strong. Let me declare war." And another strong party, America came, Russia came. He was killed. So this is no conclusion. And even after Hitler's being killed, there is no conclusion. So this sort of conflict will never bring any peace. That will go on. That is struggle for existence. That is fighting like animals. Two dogs fighting, two hogs fighting, but that is not conclusion. That fighting will go on so long people will remain as dogs and hogs. That will go on. There is no question of peace.

SHYAMASUNDAR: So real progress only comes through...

PRABHUPADA: Authoritative decision. If we accept that, then that is real conclusion.

SHYAMASUNDAR: He says that there is conflict, and you say that...

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Conflict is always there. But you cannot come to the conclusion unless you take the right decision from the authority. Two litigants, there is conflict. I say that "You do this." You say, "No, why can I do it? Our agreement is different." So there is conflict. So you go to the court and take the right decision from the judge.

SHYAMASUNDAR: He attacks speculators and especially empiricists, or those who draw conclusions of reality through their fragmentary sense perception.

PRABHUPADA: He is also doing that. He is also one of them. Because he says that ultimately the barrel... What is that?

SHYAMASUNDAR: That all political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.

PRABHUPADA: That's all. He is one of them.

SHYAMASUNDAR: Speculator.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. That's all.