But even they do not follow the moral principles. Then what is the..., where is the religion? Just like Christian religion, it is said that "Thou shalt not kill.'' But everyone is killing.

Truth to Atheist's Claim that America's Religiosity is Exaggerated

Who is and who is not an atheist? Like Napoleon, many so-called believers have use for religion to serve their own purposes, but no use for God and obedience to God's laws

King Vena, the father of Prithu Maharaja, was condemned by the brahmanas and saintly persons because of his denying the existence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and rejecting the method of satisfying Him by performance of Vedic sacrifice. In other words, he was an atheist, who did not believe in the existence of God, and who consequently stopped all Vedic ritualistic ceremonies in his kingdom. Prithu Maharaja considered King Vena's character abominable because Vena was foolish regarding the execution of religious performances. Atheists are of the opinion that there is no need to accept the authority of the Supreme Personality of Godhead to be successful in religion, economic development, sense gratification or liberation. According to them, dharma, or religious principles, are meant to establish an imaginary God to encourage one to become moral, honest and just so that the social orders may be maintained in peace and tranquillity. Furthermore, they say that actually there is no need to accept God for this purpose, for if one follows the principles of morality and honesty, that is sufficient. Similarly, if one makes nice plans and works very hard for economic development, automatically the result of economic development will come. Similarly, sense gratification also does not depend on the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for if one earns enough money by any process, one will have sufficient opportunity for sense gratification. Insofar as liberation is concerned, they say that there is no need to talk of liberation because after death everything is finished. Prithu Maharaja, however, did not accept the authority of such atheists, headed by his father, who was the grandson of death personified. Generally, a daughter inherits the qualities of her father, and a son gets the qualities of his mother. Thus Mrityu's daughter, Sunitha, got all the qualities of her father, and Vena inherited the qualities of his mother. A person who is always subjected to the rules and regulations of repeated birth and death cannot accommodate anything beyond materialistic ideas. Since King Vena was such a man, he did not believe in the existence of God. Modern civilization agrees with the principles of King Vena, but factually if we scrutinizingly study all the conditions of religion, economic development, sense gratification and liberation, we must accept the principles of the authority of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. According to Vedic literature, religion consists only of the codes of law given by God.

If one does not accept the authority of the Supreme Godhead in matters of religion and morality, one must explain why two persons of the same moral standard achieve different results. It is generally found that even if two men have the same moral standards of ethics, honesty and morality, their positions are still not the same. Similarly, in economic development it is seen that if two men work very hard day and night, still the results are not the same. One person may enjoy great opulence without even working, whereas another person, although working very hard, does not even get two sufficient meals a day. Similarly, in the matter of sense gratification, sometimes one who has sufficient food is still not happy in his family affairs or sometimes is not even married, whereas another person, even though not economically well off, has the greatest opportunity for sense gratification. Even an animal like a hog or a dog may have greater opportunities for sense gratification than a human being. Aside from liberation, even if we consider only the preliminary necessities of life — dharma, artha and kama (religion, economic development and sense gratification) — we will see that they are not the same for everyone. Therefore it must be accepted that there is someone who determines the different standards. In conclusion, not only for liberation must one depend on the Lord, but even for ordinary necessities in this material world. Prithu Maharaja therefore indicated that in spite of having rich parents, children are sometimes not happy. Similarly, in spite of valuable medicine administered by a competent physician, sometimes a patient dies; or in spite of having a big safe boat, sometimes a man drowns. We may thus struggle to counteract impediments offered by material nature, but our attempts cannot be successful unless we are favored by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Rather than reject outright, learn to distinguish between genuine and pseudo. Just because the marketplace is inundated with 9k or 14k or even gold-plated jewellery doesn't mean the pure gold cannot be purchased.

IAN POLSEN: There is a magazine called Studies in Comparative Religion which is published in this country, which I feel...

PRABHUPADA: That will not help you.

IAN POLSEN: No, but the reason why I mention it is that I think it is a magazine that Your Grace might contribute to, to propagate Krishna consciousness. Because it's based on three principles: principles of traditional religion, the principles of spiritual guidance from a spiritual master, and the invocation of the name of God. There is great similarity there, and I think that the few people who read that magazine could be reached through the magazine.

PRABHUPADA: What is the name?

IAN POLSEN: It is called Studies in Comparative Religion. And I can leave the... I have no interest in this magazine except that I subscribe to it.

PRABHUPADA: Hm. Comparative religion, from our point of view, that there cannot be many religions, cannot be many religions. Religion means... We define religion as the law given by God. So we understand from Bhagavad-gita that God says, Krishna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhaktah, mad-yaji mam namaskuru: "Always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your obeisances unto Me.'' So any religion that has no conception of God, how he can think of God? If I think of something, that something must be known to me; otherwise how can I think of it? If I imagine something, that is not wanted. My imagination of God... God is not a thing to be imagined by me. He is a concrete thing. Therefore according to our philosophy, any so-called religion which has no conception of God, that is not religion. That is simply mental speculation. We accept that religion means the law given by God. But if you do not know what is God, what is His law, then where is religion? Therefore in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said that all types of pseudo religion is rejected. You can ask any religious man, "What is your conception of God?'' he cannot give any clear conception. So far we are concerned, we can immediately give conception of God — His name, His address, everything. That is the difference. Strictly speaking, we do not accept any system of religion as bona fide. They are all rejected. That is not religion. They do not know what is God. What is that religion? Strictly speaking, that is not religion. But if we speak publicly, they will be angry. So this comparative study of religion, we don't believe in it, because there is no religion. Where is the scope of comparative study?

DEVOTEE: Nothing can compare.

PRABHUPADA: There is no religion. Strictly speaking, simply some dogmas, maybe some moral principles. That is another thing. But moral principles we have to transcend. We don't say that don't follow moral principles. But even they do not follow the moral principles. Then what is the..., where is the religion? Just like Christian religion, it is said that "Thou shalt not kill.'' But everyone is killing. So nobody's... Factually, religion means conception of God and the words of God, all over the world. Just like good citizen means he knows what is the government and what is the law of government. He is following. Similarly, religious person means he must know what is God and what are the words of God. So our principle is that we follow the words of God. God says, God says that "Always think of Me.'' So who can object to this, if he's seriously about religion? Why one should not think of God always? God says that "You think of Me.'' But if you have no idea of God, how you'll think of? We have God, Krishna, here. We can think of His form. We are busy in His service. We are not only thinking; we are trying to become His devotee. We are serving, trying to serve Him. Rising early in the morning, offering mangala-arati, then prayers, then reading His message, trying to apply in our life as far as possible. We are not perfect, but we are trying to follow the instruction of God. This is our life. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakta mad-yaji mam namaskuru. So you have studied that magazine. Can you give me any idea, what do you think about religion? What is religion?

IAN POLSEN: Religion to me means more now that I have come in contact with Krishna consciousness than it did before. It means self-realization. It means realization of my relationship with the Supreme.

PRABHUPADA: Yes.

IAN POLSEN: It is to understand that and to realize it to the limit of my intelligence.

PRABHUPADA: Say... So first of all you have to realize what you are; then you can understand what is your relationship with God. And according to that relationship with God, when you act, that is religion. That is religion.

IAN POLSEN: And one needs guidance.

PRABHUPADA: Yes. First of all we have to know ourselves. To know ourselves means self-realization: "I am not this body. I am spirit soul.'' Then what is this spirit soul? Naturally, part and parcel of God. Therefore as spirit soul my duty is to serve God. That is religion, plain thing. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It is serving me. That is healthy condition. If there is any pain — "Oh, this finger cannot scratch. I'm feeling pain'' — that is irreligion. So long the part and parcel of my body, the finger, cannot serve me, it is not normal condition. So every living being is part and parcel of God. So long he's unable to serve God, that is his material condition. But as soon as he's engaged actually in the service of God, that is his real liberated position. Same example: If the finger is diseased, it cannot serve. But when it is serving, that is healthy condition. Similarly, we living entities, we are part and parcel of God. When we are not engaged in the service of the Lord, or God... Everyone is engaged to some service. Somebody's serving his family, somebody's serving himself, somebody's serving his government, somebody's serving so many things. And somebody's serving even cats and dogs. So these are all mad condition. So when he turns to God... Service he must give. Nobody can say, "I'm not serving anybody.'' That is not possible. You must be serving somebody. Just like you are serving government, he is serving some office, because service is our nature. So we are not happy because the service is misplaced. When the service is rightly placed, then it is our normal condition. Therefore Krishna says that "You surrender unto Me.'' That is real liberated condition. So our mission is serving God. In this way, that people are suffering on account of their godless life. So we are making propaganda that "Serve God, then you will be happy.'' We know why he's suffering. The same example: The finger in diseased condition cannot serve me. It has to be treated when there is some pain. Suppose this, the nail, I apply some medicine, cure it so that it can serve me. So the whole world is suffering because he's not fit to serve God. So if he becomes fit to serve God, then all the suffering will be gone. The same example again: When the finger is fit to serve, that means it has no disease. And so long it is diseased, there is pain, it cannot serve.

DEVOTEE: It suffers.

PRABHUPADA: Huh?

DEVOTEE: And it suffers.

PRABHUPADA: It is suffering. When it is not serving, therefore it is suffering, and when it is serving, there is no suffering. Two things. There cannot be three things. This is very scientific. It is not imagination. The finger is not serving me means it is diseased. It is suffering. So they're not accepting this process. We say that you are suffering because you're not serving God. You serve God, your sufferings will be gone. Do you think our philosophy is all right, or not?

IAN POLSEN: I accept it completely. Yes.

DEVOTEE: I think he is also well educated. He understands the truth.

PRABHUPADA: Hm.

mam cha yo vyabhicharena
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]

As soon as you are engaged in the service of the Lord, you are in healthy condition, there is no suffering. Just like these boys, they did not know Krishna, what is Krishna, two years or three years ago. But since they have been engaged in the service of, they are feeling very nice, healthy. Everyone is asking me, "Why so many young men are attracted by this movement?'' [laughs] They think it is movement. No. They have taken the real occupation-serving Krishna. Therefore they have embraced. When one is normally situated, naturally he feels happy and he's healthy. When in the diseased condition, he cannot be happy. When the disease is gone, in healthy condition, naturally you'll be happy.

DEVOTEE (3): Prabhupada, is it to say it is a way of life or a aim of life?

PRABHUPADA: What is that?

DEVOTEE (3): Way of life or aim of life?

PRABHUPADA: The aim is that you must get free from your diseased condition. That should be the aim. It is not the way of life. You must get free yourself from the diseased condition. It is not a way of life; that is a must. If you want to be free from diseased condition, you must treat yourself properly. The treating is... Treatment is you surrender unto God and take to His service. This is simple. You are suffering, that's a fact. Everyone knows. Anyone who has got this material body, he is suffering. Nobody can say, "No, I am not suffering.'' Is there anybody? The body is meant for suffering, this material body. But because they do not approach the real physician, they think that they have got a material body, and that material body means there are senses, the sense gratification will give him satisfaction. Therefore he's simply after sense gratification, that's all. That is not treatment. That is still more complication.

DEVOTEE (1): Aggravates the disease.

PRABHUPADA: That's all. People after sense gratification. A diseased man, who cannot digest, if he thinks that "I shall eat this, I shall eat that, I shall eat that,'' but actually he cannot digest. Eating this or that, how it will help him? (laughs) If you have lost your digesting power, then if you change, "I eat this, I shall eat that,'' that will not help you. So the modern civilized man, he has lost the point how he can be happy. He is simply changing the program of sense gratification. That's all.

IAN POLSEN: Becoming more and more desperate.

PRABHUPADA: Huh? Yes. He has no other idea. Just like here in this material world the highest pleasure is sex life, so they are changing, different types of sex life, that's all. [break]

[break] We want to see that you are lover of God. God is one. God is neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian. So we want to see that you love God, that is all. That is our mission.