So who is introducing any other God? God is one.

First Ever Hindu Prayer Shouted Down in the Senate

God is God; there cannot be two Gods

CALLER: I have another question. Is the founder of the Hare Krishna movement still alive? Did I hear Bob say that he died back in 1973?

HANSADUTTA: In 1977 he passed away at the age of 82.

CALLER: Okay, now here's the difference. Now, I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything, but here's the differences I see in your particular religion and that of Christianity. Jesus Christ is not dead. He has risen. He is alive today.

HANSADUTTA: Yes, so is our spiritual master also alive.

CALLER: You just told me that it was in 1977 that he died.

HANSADUTTA: He disappeared.

CALLER: You said died.

HANSADUTTA: Died or disappeared, but we understand that a living being never dies, because the soul is eternal.

CALLER: When a human being dies, then, like say you or I, what happens thereafter?

HANSADUTTA: That is a very good question. That is explained in Bhagavad-gita, and it says, "Wherever and whatever the mind is fixed upon at the time of leaving this body, one immediately attains to that nature." Therefore Krishna says, "One should always think of Me. Whosoever quits his body thinking of Me alone immediately attains to a nature like My own." So the idea of any religious discipline, whether it's the Christian or in our case Bhagavad-gita, is to purify the mind and fix it on God so that at the time of giving up the body he goes back home, back to Godhead.

CALLER: What happens if a person goes through life neglecting these rituals of discipline and just lives after his own whim?

HANSADUTTA: Then according to his actions, he will have to accept another body and suffer or enjoy the reactions of his previous deeds.

CALLER: Suffer or enjoy. You mean there's an option?

HANSADUTTA: Well, actually there is no real enjoyment in the material world, because everyone's life, be he a king or a sweeper, is beset with four sufferings: birth, death, old age and disease.

CALLER: You're speaking of this life.

HANSADUTTA: Yes, next life also. Bodily existence means birth, death, old age and disease. The body is the source of all kinds of sufferings, and the Bhagavad-gita teaches the conditioned soul how to get out of this cycle of repeated birth and death and return back to his normal, constitutional position as eternal spirit soul.

INTERVIEWER: Are you saying you attain a certain level, and if you attain that level, then you escape into what you call the Godhead?

HANSADUTTA: Exactly. Yes, when one's consciousness becomes thoroughly purified, he goes back home, back to Godhead. But as long as one maintains even a pinch of desire for some material enjoyment, nature will give him the opportunity to fulfill those desires by accepting a particular kind of body.

INTERVIEWER: So you'll be recycled.

HANSADUTTA: Exactly.

CALLER: I have one more question, Bob. Jesus Christ made the claim 2,000 years ago that "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to God but by me." Now, he made that claim. What do you say about that claim?

HANSADUTTA: We agree. We are all Christians, after all. I was going to church every morning and taking communion and so on. As a matter of fact, yesterday when Mr. Rupert from the Seattle Times was interviewing me, he asked me a similar question, and just minutes before that I was reading a Bible. So he was quite amazed, because generally people think we are of the opinion that our way is the only way, and so forth and so on. But actually, Lord Jesus is right: "No one cometh unto the Father except by me." So we are all Christians. So we are coming to the Father, Krishna.

CALLER: Thank you very much.

HANSADUTTA: Thank you.

INTERVIEWER: That blows my mind. I didn't know that was the case.

HANSADUTTA: Oh yes. The word Christ is not actually the name of Lord Jesus. That's his title. Just as "President" is the title of Mr. Carter. Carter is the name, "President" is the title. So this word Christ comes from the Greek word christo, and christo means "the anointed one, the lover of God." And the word christo comes from the Sanskrit krishna. So basically we can understand that Lord Jesus the Christ means he is the lover of Krishna, or the lover of God. But this has been lost in time, and people are not aware of it.

INTERVIEWER: That's amazing. Amazing cookies.

HANSADUTTA: Thank you.

INTERVIEWER: They brought me some goodies down here.

HANSADUTTA: That's another feature of our movement. We are very expert in cooking.

CALLER: My name is Donna, and I would like to ask a few questions. First, I have been listening to you quite attentively here, and some of the things that you say do follow what the Bible says about Christ, and it does say in the Bible, though, and I'd like to know how you feel about this, that God did give all animals to man to eat. Now, what I'm referring to is in the Old Testament and in the New Testament.

HANSADUTTA: I think if you were put on the spot, you'd never find the word "eat", but it says in Genesis right on the first page that God has given dominion to man over all the beasts and fowls of the earth. So dominion doesn't exactly mean that they are given to man to eat. Just like a king has dominion over his subjects. It doesn't mean that he is going to eat them. Actually, the king's duty is to protect them. So similarly, the reference in the Bible of God giving dominion to man over the lower species of life means that it is his business to give them protection.

CALLER: Yes, but it also says in Chapter 9 of Genesis that "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you. Even as the green herb, I have given you all things that are insignificant to eat."

HANSADUTTA: Of course, that is in the Old Testament, and as you remember, Lord Jesus introduced the commandments, one of them being "Thou shalt not kill." So with the coming of this age, this is not allowed. This is forbidden. You'll find that practically in every scripture of the world that ahimsa or nonviolence is one of the religious principles. Lord Buddha especially came to teach only this principle, because people were so barbaric at that time, about 2,500 years ago, that the people were using scriptural references to open slaughterhouses and mercilessly kill the animals. There is a kind of allowance for animal sacrifice, but that is quite different from animal killing in a slaughterhouse, which becomes a very big business enterprise.

CALLER: Well, you're talking about something totally different, though, because we're talking about what we eat, and it says also in the Bible also that Jesus came to us so that all of our sins could be forgiven.

HANSADUTTA: Yes, but people are still sinning.

CALLER: That's right. And it says in the Bible that man will go on sinning.

HANSADUTTA: It means they're not following Jesus.

CALLER: That's right.

HANSADUTTA: So they should follow by following his commandments.

CALLER: That's right. The ten commandments. Those are the commandments that God gave to us.

HANSADUTTA: Exactly. "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not commit adultery." And so forth. People are not following. Therefore there are so many difficulties.

CALLER: It says in the Bible also that it is not what you put in that defiles the man, it is what is in his heart that defiles it. Right there, it just eliminates the basis of what you're saying. Jesus said that himself. It is not what man puts in him that defiles him. It's what's in his heart.

HANSADUTTA: Well, we have to just refer to his basic commandments. He says, "Thou shalt not kill." So you have to follow it.

CALLER: But you're referring to man. Jesus talks of how you are to be to your fellow man.

HANSADUTTA: No, no. He says, "Even what you do to the least of my creatures, you do it unto me." That includes even birds and beasts. They are also created by God.

CALLER: Okay. Another question that I'd like to ask you, though, is I'd like to know if you have any solid, external proof of your book, what your God offers to you. Our God offers us eternal life.

HANSADUTTA: Yes. Sach-chid-ananda, eternity, knowledge and bliss. That is the spiritual atmosphere. And any scripture — not only Bhagavad-gita, but the Bible, the Koran — all of them guide us out of the temporary world of material existence, which is full of suffering, to the world of eternal life.

CALLER: Can you give me any external proofs of what your book says that will come to pass for you. Our book gives us the Revelations, that is prophecy what is to happen in the future for us. Is there anything that your book tells you that goes along with everyday life?

HANSADUTTA: Oh yes, it is described, for instance, in this age in which we live (called the Age of Kali, which means the age of quarrel, dissension and hypocrisy) there will be practically no religion. In this age people will grow long hair and beards and think themselves very beautiful. They will not bathe regularly...

CALLER: What about the commandment that "Thou shalt not put any other God before Me"? How do you feel about that? Do you feel that your God and my God are the same?

HANSADUTTA: Of course.

CALLER: Do you worship an image?

HANSADUTTA: God is God. There cannot be two Gods.

CALLER: You believe in Jesus Christ. He said that through him...

HANSADUTTA: Yes, but who is following him? No one is following him. People should follow Lord Jesus, his commandments, and then everything is all right.

CALLER: But is this what you are teaching people? To follow Jesus? Or are you teaching people to follow your Krishna?

HANSADUTTA: We are teaching them to follow the principles of religion. Whether they are taught by Jesus or Mohammed does not matter. Just like mathematics may be taught in London or in San Francisco, but two plus two must be equal to four. We are not concerned with the person who is teaching. We are concerned with the teaching itself, with the principles.

INTERVIEWER: What you're saying is that it all gets you to the same eventual goal.

HANSADUTTA: Yes, if you actually follow the tenets of Lord Jesus or Mohammed or Lord Krishna, you will come to the same destination.

CALLER: Right, okay. But what I'm saying, you see, what I've gotten from...

INTERVIEWER: I'm sorry, I think you've said it. Okay?

CALLER: All right.

INTERVIEWER: Thank you. ...I love what you said , designating right now as the Age of Quarrel.

HANSADUTTA: Yes, it's said that in this age, on a slight misunderstanding there will be a huge fight, nationally or internationally.

INTERVIEWER: I've never heard it put so succinctly. The Age of Quarrel. ... [Picks up new call] Hello, you're on KZOK.

CALLER: Talking about the ten commandments... one of them was "Thou shalt not kill". I really don't think that the Lord intended us to take that so literally.

HANSADUTTA: Well, then what is the use of having a Bible? What is the use of Jesus talking if we're going to have to interpret everything he says? He must be intelligent enough to say what he means. Why should we assume that he didn't mean what he said? It's not very respectful to Lord Jesus to make him the object of everyone else's opinion. Then the Bible becomes meaningless. That is the difficulty today. Everyone is very quick to interpret to suit his convenience. But this is not actually very good. Just like the law cannot be interpreted by the citizens. If there's a disagreement over some point of law, it goes before a judge, and he will decide. So similarly, the tenets of the Bhagavad-gita or the Bible should be taken literally, strictly, as they are. What is the harm if you refrain from killing animals? It is very good. Even St. Francis (of Assissi), who is a great saint in the Christian church, never killed animals. He wouldn't even kill a bug, he was so saintly. So this is a saintly quality — nonviolence. Of course, in the modern age it has become the standard practice to kill animals for food, but it is not at all saintly. It's not civilized. It's barbaric.

CALLER: Well, another thing is you were talking about Jesus and God being two different things.

HANSADUTTA: Not things, of course. They are two different personalities. I should have said that.

CALLER: I've been raised as a Catholic.

HANSADUTTA: I was also raised as a Catholic.

CALLER: So you know where I'm coming from. For people out there who don't know what Catholic philosophy is, we believe that Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God are all one.

HANSADUTTA: That is also a fact. They are one and different simultaneously, just as America is one, but nevertheless you and Carter are not one and the same. You are different. And yet, because you are Americans, you are one. So there is oneness in diversity. In other words, we are also one with God, but because of disobedience it is understood that we are separated. The oneness takes place when we again become harmonious with the will of the Lord, and in this way we become liberated.

INTERVIEWER: Thanks for the call. [Takes another] Okay, what's on your mind?

CALLER: I'd like to know why you always chant Hare Krishna. What's the meaning of it?

HANSADUTTA: We always chant Hare Krishna because these sound vibrations of Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare are names of God and considered to be identical with God Himself, because God is absolute. There is no difference between His name and His person as there is in the material world. For instance, the substance water and the name water are not at all the same. They are different. By simply repeating, "Water, water, water," I cannot quench my thirst. But on the spiritual platform, the Lord, His name, His picture, His service, His pastimes, and His instructions are all one and the same. So by chanting the Hare Krishna mantra we are always in touch with God, and thereby one remains free from the influence of maya, the illusory energy of the material world.

INTERVIEWER: What do you think about a guy like George Harrison, who wrote about the Krishna beliefs an made money off it with records like "My Sweet Lord" and "Living in the Material World"? These are a couple of his songs.

HANSADUTTA: Well, George... from the very beginning...

INTERVIEWER: Was he ever serious about the Hare Krishna movement?

HANSADUTTA: Yes, he was. Actually, in the early days when we first came to London in 1968 or 1969, he helped us very much. As a matter of fact, we stayed at John Lennon's place for a while until we could find a place in London, and then George Harrison purchased for us a very large house, a manor in Hertfordshire about 45 minutes outside London. And he used to come regularly to our place. He was chanting and following the principles.

INTERVIEWER: George Harrison was following the principles?

HANSADUTTA: Yes, he was for some time. He gave up meat eating, illicit sex, gambling and so on. But later on I think he became a little diverted again. But he's always been helpful to us. Although he doesn't maintain a strict life of Krishna consciousness, nevertheless he's very sympathetic and appreciates the philosophy. He published three of our important books, which are called the KRSNA books. He gave about $18,000 or $20,000 to publish them originally, and he's always been a good friend to us. If he makes money by that, Krishna has sent him. Whatever we get by the grace of Krishna is all right.

INTERVIEWER: He's had a lot of that. He's got a lot of money.

HANSADUTTA: Yes.

INTERVIEWER: Okay. On to some more telephone calls. [Picks up the phone]

CALLER: First of all, what I wanted to say was Jesus said, "There is only eternal life through me." Nobody else. Does that make any sense to you?

HANSADUTTA: Yes. He's also a son of God, a representative of God. He must say that.

CALLER: But what you're saying is that you can see eternal life through your people or whoever they are.

HANSADUTTA: Yes, you can. Why not?

CALLER: Well, that's not what he's saying, though. He's saying, "You can only see eternal life through me." Do you understand that?

HANSADUTTA: Yes, but "me" means the principle of that teaching. Lord Jesus is a teacher. Just like any teacher — mathematics teacher, physics teacher, chemistry teacher — the teacher says, "You must learn this chemistry from me; otherwise you can't pass the grade." It doesn't mean he's the only teacher. It means he's teaching a science. Any bona fide teacher can accept this science.

CALLER: He said there will be no other gods. In other words, what he's saying is "Fine, there are other gods, but you only worship Me." He's not saying that He's the only God, and He's not saying there is no other God.

HANSADUTTA: Actually, Jesus never said that one should worship him. I think you are mistaken. I think you're not reading your Bible properly. He said, "I come on behalf of my Father. Whatever I do, I do on behalf of Him." He always advocated that one should worship the Supreme Lord. He never advocated that he should be worshiped.

CALLER: Fine, he does say that. But he's still saying, "There shall be no other gods before me."

HANSADUTTA: That's right. So who is introducing any other God? God is one.

CALLER: True, true. But see, what you're saying to your people is that you can see eternal life through Him or whoever. True?

HANSADUTTA: Krishna. Krishna means God.

CALLER: Okay, well, see, Krishna and God are two different Gods.

HANSADUTTA: God is unlimited. He has so many names. Either God or Jehovah or Allah...

CALLER: Krishna is one God. Well, my God an your God are two different Gods.

HANSADUTTA: Well, maybe you have some other god. But as far as we understand it, God is one. And all the scriptures of the world are His instructions.

CALLER: You contradict what you're saying. You're saying Krishna is a God. You're saying you can see eternal life through him. Well, it states in the Book of Hebrews, you can go to Revelations, first book of John, it says the same thing: "There shall be no other gods before Me."

HANSADUTTA: But who is saying there is any other God? You are saying that. I am not saying that.

CALLER: You just said it yourself.

HANSADUTTA: No, you are saying it.

CALLER: You contradicted yourself.

HANSADUTTA: God is the author of all the scriptures. God is one.

CALLER: Okay, it says, "You shall only see eternal life through me." So if you're saying you can see it through Krishna, there must be two of them, correct?

HANSADUTTA: Anyway, are you doing that? Are you a good Christian?

CALLER: No.

HANSADUTTA: Then what is the use of talking about Christ?

CALLER: What difference does it make?

HANSADUTTA: Well, if you're not following, yourself, what is the use of hearing from you?

CALLER: I'm following, but what difference does it make what I am?

INTERVIEWER: Because it's the Age of Quarrel, I think.

HANSADUTTA: Exactly.

INTERVIEWER: Thank you very much. [takes a new call]

CALLER: I'd like to talk about your abstaining from taking meat into your body. Don't you have to kill plants, though, to eat? To be a vegetarian?

HANSADUTTA: Yes, that's a good question. Actually, nature's law is that every living being exists by eating another living being. But the scriptures are the regulations for human activity. Therefore, from the shastras we understand that for the human species a certain quota of food is set aside, which I described before as being six — namely, vegetables, fruits, milk products, grains, sugars and nuts. So with these six ingredients, one can maintain the body in a very healthy state. Actually, far more healthy, if we look at it from a material point of view, than those who eat meat. Vegetarians are always far more healthy, and their endurance is greater, although they may not have brute strength. So the philosophy that because our body is made of meat and bones so therefore we must eat meat and bones is not very correct. Even an elephant, so powerful an animal, never eats even a scrap of meat. Yet he's very powerful.

CALLER: He might get a few bugs in his hay once in a while. I don't eat meat, myself, and I feel great. I haven't eaten it for a good year and a half, except once by accident, and I feel great. But I eat poultry.

HANSADUTTA: Well, if you give that up, you'll feel even greater.

CALLER: Is that right?

HANSADUTTA: Yes. Why don't you come to our Sunday Feast today? It's free. You'll see that many hundreds of things which are very, very delicious and nourishing can be prepared from just these six ingredients.

CALLER: It sounds pretty good. I couldn't make it, but from what Bob was saying about your cookies, it sounds pretty good.

INTERVIEWER: The cookies are fantastic.

CALLER: It sounds good. Maybe I'll see you sometime.

HANSADUTTA: Thank you.

CALLER: I just wanted to know what benefits this chanting would have if I would do it at home, if I couldn't make it to the temple.

HANSADUTTA: Yes, I explained it before that the chanting cleans the mirror of the mind, and one becomes free from hankering and lamenting. That is called brahma-bhutah. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na sochati na kankshati. It means by chanting one comes to his original joyful consciousness, free from hankering and lamenting. The living entity is originally joyful, just as sugar is naturally sweet or fire is hot. Similarly, we are all brahma-bhutah prasannatma. Prasannatma means joyful by nature. But now we are embarrassed by so many designations, such as "I am American" or "I am German" or "I'm a fat man", "a thin man", "rich man", "poor man". So the chanting removes all these misconceptions, and you become joyful.

CALLER: So then anyone at home can chant?

HANSADUTTA: Yes, anyone in any place can chant. Chanting consists of three words: Hare, Krishna, and Rama. And they are repeated in a 16-word mantra: Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare.

INTERVIEWER: So that's the cycle. Is it simply a way of cleaning your mind of obstructions?

HANSADUTTA: Yes, purifying the mind. As we would take a bath to clean our body, this is a kind of mental bath.

INTERVIEWER: In other words, it's a mental exercise, just to concentrate and focus on one thing and not concern yourself with anything else?

HANSADUTTA: Exactly. It purifies the mind.

INTERVIEWER: Thank you very much for coming by KZOK this morning. I sure appreciate it.

HANSADUTTA: Thank you. I also appreciated your hospitality.

INTERVIEWER: It's a pleasure to meet you, and I sure do appreciate it.