But India, they have given up the real religious system, sanatana-dharma, or varnashrama-dharma. Fictitiously, they have accepted a hodgepodge thing which is called Hinduism. Therefore there is trouble.

So-called Hinduism is not Vedic Dharma

What is Hinduism?

PUSTA KRSNA: [reads:] Question number three: "It is said that the greatest strength of Hinduism is its catholicity, or breadth of outlook, broadness of vision, but that this is also the greatest weakness in that there is very little common prescribed religious observances which are obligatory for all as in other religions. Is it necessary and possible to outline certain basic minimum observances for all Hindus."

PRABHUPADA: So far Vedic religion is concerned, it is not for the Hindus. That is to be understood. The sanatana-dharma [the eternal religion, or eternal occupation of the living entities]. It is for all living entities, all human beings. It is called sanatana-dharma. That I have already explained. The living entity is sanatana, God is sanatana, and there is sanatana-dharma. Paras tasmat tu bhavo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktat sanatanah [Bhagavad-gita 8.20]. And where Krishna is described sanatana in the Eleventh Chapter. Do you remember? He is described as sanatana. Sanatanam. So actually, the Vedic system is called sanatana-dharma. Not Hindu dharma. This is a wrong conception. The sanatana-dharma is meant for all living entities, not the so-called Hindus, Muslims, Christians. For everyone. That is sanatana-dharma. These are later misconceptions, Hinduism and this ism, that ism, that ism. Actually, it is called sanatana-dharma, or varnashrama-dharma. That is meant for everyone. But because it was being followed regularly in India and Indians were called by the Muslims on the other side of the River Sind, or Sindu, and they pronounce Sind as "Hind". Therefore they called India as Hindustan—means on the other side of Sindu, or Hindu River. Otherwise, it has no Vedic reference. So this Hindu dharma has no Vedic reference. The real Vedic dharma is sanatana-dharma, varnashrama-dharma. First of all he has to understand this.

Now that sanatana-dharma, or Vedic dharma, being distorted, not being obeyed, not being carried properly, it has come to the understanding of Hinduism. That is a freak understanding. That is not real understanding. We have to study sanatana-dharma or varnashrama-dharma. Then we'll understand what is Vedic religion.

PUSTA KRSNA: So is there anything obligatory or prescribed for all people who follow this religion, that a minimum observance that they must do?

PRABHUPADA: Yes. Every living entity is eternal, sanatana. God is eternal, and we can live with God in a place which is called sanatana-dhama [the eternal abode]. So this reciprocation is called sanatana-dharma. So Vedic religion means this sanatana-dharma, not Hindu dharma, or Muslim dharma, or this dharma. [To Radhavallabha:] Read this verse.

RADHAVALLABHA:

tvam aksharam paramam veditavyam
tvam asya vishvasya param nidhanam
tvam avyayah shashvata-dharma-gopta
sanatanas tvam purusho mato me

PRABHUPADA: Yes.

RADHAVALLABHA: Translation?

PRABHUPADA: Yes.

RADHAVALLABHA: "You are the supreme primal objective. You are the best in all the universes. You are inexhaustible and You are the oldest. You are the maintainer of religion, the eternal Personality of Godhead."

PRABHUPADA: This is wanted. Krishna is eternal, we are eternal, and the place we live, exchanging our feelings, that is eternal. And the system which teaches this eternal system of reciprocation, that is called sanatana-dharma. That is meant for everyone.

PUSTA KRSNA: So what daily prescribed religious observances would one who is aspiring for this sanatana-dharma, what would they do? What kind of daily prescribed religious observance? Because the complaint is that within this Hinduism, or let's say sanatana-dharma, there is such a breadth, there is so much variegatedness in different types...

PRABHUPADA: So why do you go to variegatedness? Why don't you take the real purpose of religion from Krishna? Krishna says, "This is real dharma," sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam sharanam... [Bg. 18.66: "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear."]. Why don't you take that? Why are you going to variegated things or varieties under the name of so-called Hinduism? Why do you go there? Why don't you take the advice of the sanatana, Krishna? You don't take what is sanatana-dharma, what sanatana God says, and you say, "How we can come to the right point, avoiding so many varieties?" Why you go to the varieties? Take to this one consciousness, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam sharanam. Why don't you do that?

PUSTA KRSNA: How can people practically do this on a daily basis?

PRABHUPADA: How we are doing? Is it not practical? They'll manufacture their own way of religion. And that is... That is not practical. You take this practical system. What is this? Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji... Where is impracticality? You simply think of Krishna, become His devotee, worship Krishna. Or just offer a little obeisances to Krishna. Where is the difficulty? Why don't you do that? Krishna says, "This is the duty. If you do this, you come to Me." Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam evaishyasi asamshaya. "Without any doubt you'll come to Me." Why don't you do that? Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. Why you remain Hindu? Why you remain Muslim? Why you remain Christian? Give up all this nonsense. Just surrender to Krishna. "I am devotee of Krishna, servant of Krishna." Take this. Then everything will be immediately done. Krishna says, sarva-dharman parityajya. So why you want to remain Hindu? And try to adjust things? Dharma means dharmam tu sakshad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19: "Real religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although fully situated in the mode of goodness, even the great rishis who occupy the topmost planets cannot ascertain the real religious principles, nor can the demigods or the leaders of Siddhaloka, to say nothing of the asuras, ordinary human beings, Vidyadharas and Charanas."]. What God says, that is dharma. Now, God says that "You give up all this. You just surrender unto Me." So take that dharma. Why you want to remain a Hindu?

And who is a Hindu who does not accept the authority of Krishna? Who is a Hindu? If any Hindu says, even up till now, that "I don't care for Krishna and Bhagavad-gita," he will be immediately rejected as a madman. Why don't you take Krishna's instruction? Why do you go outside? Therefore your trouble is there. You do not know what is religion, you do not know what is Hinduism, what is sanatana-dharma. You do not know anything. And actually, practically, you see that in our Krishna consciousness movement there are so-called Hindus, so-called Muslims. They do not care for Muslim or Hindu or Christian. They are taking care of Krishna. That's all. If you take care of false religious system, then you suffer. You take real religious system, then you'll be happy.

PUSTA KRSNA: Sometimes it's also seen, say, that Muslims and Hindus they will be converted to Christianity, and the same argument can be given. So what would be the difference for the, in this case, that one who is identifying himself as Christian or one is identifying himself as devotee of Krishna?

PRABHUPADA: First of all, you have to understand what is religion. The religion is God's law. You have to understand. Religion does not mean your manufactured, concocted ideas. What God says, that is religion. So here Krishna is God. He is saying. Therefore this is religion. Is that clear? Make it clear. So long one point is not clear, don't go to the next point.

PUSTA KRSNA: Yes. Especially he is trying to inquire that it appears that India, for example, today...

PRABHUPADA: But India, they have given up the real religious system, sanatana-dharma, or varnashrama-dharma. Fictitiously, they have accepted a hodgepodge thing which is called Hinduism. Therefore there is trouble. Everywhere, but India especially, they are... Vedic religion... Vedic religion means varnashrama-dharma. That is... Krishna says, God says, chatur-varnyam maya srishtam [Bg. 4.13]. So that is, what is called, obligatory. Just like law is obligatory. You cannot say that "I don't take this law." No. You have to take it if you want to have a happy. You cannot become outlaw. Then you'll not be happy. You'll be punished. So God says maya srishtam. "It is given by Me." So how we can deny it? And that is religion. Dharmam tu sakshad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharmam means the order given by the God. The God says that chatur-varnyam maya srishtam guna-karma-vibhagashah [Bg. 4.13]: "For the proper management of the human society, there should be these four divisions, social divisions." So you have to take it.

PUSTA KRSNA: This would be the prescription for all people?

PRABHUPADA: Everyone, for all people. There must be on the head the intelligent class of men who will give advice. Then next class, the... That is all given in the Bhagavad-gita. Brahmana, kshatriya, vaishya, shudra. But when you become Krishna conscious you can give up all these regulative principles directly. Therefore Krishna, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. A brahmana-dharma, kshatriya-dharma, or this dharma, that dharma, Hindu dharma, Mussulman dharma. If you have everything, simply... Because the ultimate aim of dharma is to come to Krishna. "You directly come to Me; then everything is all right."

DEVOTEE: So many other people, they concoct their own system and they say "This is the way to go to God."

PRABHUPADA: Then let them suffer. What can be done? What can be done? If you don't take the laws of the state, you manufacture your own laws, then you'll suffer. If the state says, "Keep to the right," and if make your own law, "No, keep to the left," then you'll suffer. It's a fact.

DEVOTEE: So many innocent people are also...

PRABHUPADA: So innocent suffers. Intelligent never suffers. Only the rascals, innocent, they suffer. Innocent means rascal also. He does not know what is, what to do. The rascal is also innocent. A child is innocent, but he's a rascal. It does not mean because he's innocent, he's not rascal. Rascal means he's innocent also. The child does not know that, "If I touch fire it will burn." Therefore he's a rascal. But because he is child, innocent, he'll not be excused. The rascal and innocent on the same category. Innocence of law is not, no excuse. If you go to the court, if you say, "Sir I did not know there is law like this," that does not mean... You must suffer. Why Krishna comes? He gives advice that "You do this. Don't remain innocent and rascal. Then you'll be happy." Why should you stick to the rascaldom? He's personally advising. He says sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam sharanam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Why you are sticking to Hinduism and Muslimism and Christianism? Why? That is rascaldom. You take to His advice and you be happy.

DEVOTEE: But these religions are just material. These Hindu, Christian, Muslim... they're following these things because that is simply their destiny? They don't know how to please God, so that's simply part of their happiness and distress?

PRABHUPADA: Whatever it may be, now Krishna is asking, "You give up this rascaldom." You do it. Don't go to the history. He says, "You give up." You give up. That's all. Then you are perfect. That is Krishna consciousness. Why you are going to the history? History may be something else, but now He says directly "Give up," you give up. That's all. Finish this business. Hm. That is... The point is clear now?

PUSTA KRSNA: Oh, yes.

PRABHUPADA: Then go on.

Caste system misconceived

PUSTA KRSNA: [Reads:] Question number four: "Even a well read, widely traveled, and enlightened editor like the late Sri Frank Moraes..." I think that's how you... M-o-r-a-e-s. [laughter]

PRABHUPADA: Who is he?

PUSTA KRSNA: I don't know. He's late though.

DHRISHTADYUMNA: He has died, Srila Prabhupada.

PUSTA KRSNA: He's dead. He was enlightened. [Resumes reading:] "...equated Hindu ethos with castism." He equated that Hindu culture, or Hindu ethos, and castism is one and the same. "Will the fundamental values of Hinduism be in any way affected by the eradication of castism, towards which a concerted effort is now being made at all levels?"

PRABHUPADA: But it cannot be done. This is another foolishness. Because Krishna says, chatur-varnyam maya srishtam guna-karma-vibhagashah [Bg. 4.13]. But the difficulty is the caste system is coming on account of false notion that a brahmana is the son of a brahmana. That is caste system. But Krishna does not say. He says, "By quality and work." He never says, "By birth." So this so-called castism in India that is a false notion of chatur-varnyam. Real chatur-varnyam means guna-karma-vibhagashah. One must be qualified.

And how one is qualified? That is also described. Satya shamo damo titikshva arjava jñanam vijñanam astikyam. So there must be education. It is not that to abolish the caste system which is contaminated by false conception, or birth right conception. This wrong caste system should be abolished, and training centers should be opened how to train a person to become brahmana or to become kshatriya. Guna-karma-vibhagashah.

So you cannot avoid it, but because you have misconceived the caste system, that should be abolished, and the system recommended by Krishna, that should be taken. Otherwise you cannot avoid it. Caste system will remain. Just like truthfulness. So all over the world you'll find somebody who is truthful. Why do you take it: "His father was truthful, therefore he is truthful."? This is nonsense. This is nonsense. Krishna never said that. The father may be Hiranyakasipu, but his son is Prahlada. Or a son... Not that the, one has to become exactly like the father. It may be. There is every possibility, but it is not a fact that the son becomes like the father. It is not fact. So similarly, the first-class man is truthful. Now, wherever you find a truthful man, you classify him as brahmana. That is wanted. Why do you take that "Here is a son of truthful man; therefore he is brahmana"? That is misconception. You have to pick up the truthful men all over the world and classify them as brahmana. That we are doing. "If you follow these principles, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, no meat-eating, you are brahmana. Come on." His father may be meat-eater or gambler or drunkard, but he is agreeing, "All right, come on, this come. You are welcome." Then it will be all right. You cannot abolish the truthful class of men. There are... You'll find truthful men everywhere. So you have to pick up. So Krishna says that, chatur-varnyam maya, guna-karma... You pick up the quality of men and put them in the brahminical class, and then next, kshatriya class, then vaishya class, then shudra class. But you cannot abolish that system. That is a false attempt. Because more or less, there will be a class of men who are truthful. You cannot abolish. More or less, there will be a class of men who are sinful. So as soon as you want to pick up from a family, then it is mistake, miscalculated. That caste system should be abolished. But real classification... Not caste. It is classification. Intelligent class of men, or truthful class of men, the fighter class of men, that will continue all over the world. You cannot abolish it. Even if you abolish caste system in India, you cannot abolish the class of truthful men. That is not possible. In spite of so much degradation, a class of men will remain truthful, a class of men will remain sinful. More or less. You cannot abolish this. So this is false attempt. And this caste system is also false. It is not based on the right description of caste system.

PUSTA KRSNA: You're saying, rather, it's a classification according to the quality of a man's...

PRABHUPADA: Yes. That is wanted. That must be there.

PUSTA KRSNA: And what will be the benefit of classifying men according to their qualities?

PRABHUPADA: Benefit will be then the whole thing will go in order. That is already described many times, that there must be brain, there must be arms, there must be belly, there must be legs for the complete composition of the body. If there is no brain, there is no head, then what is the use of these arms and legs and belly? It is all dead. So in the society, human society, if there is not a class of selected, truthful, honest, and so many brahminical qualifications, then society is ruined. Therefore they are perplexed. Everyone is a shudra. Go to the factory. That's all. Go to the factory and bring money. And he is getting 25 dollars or 50 dollars daily and immediately purchasing wine and flat on Bowery Street. You'll produce such men, useless men, disturbing in the human society. You cannot make classless. If you make classless, naturally they will be all shudras, fourth-class men. Then there will be society chaos.

Krishna for everyone, not just Hindus, Christians, Mohammedans...

PUSTA KRSNA: Another part of this same question: "If the harijanas, who constitute a sizable population amongst the Hindus, are made to feel that their very religion..."

PRABHUPADA: These are all artificial. The harijana word was used by Gandhi unnecessarily for a class of men who are not fit for the position. Harijana means "the men of Hari." Just like Narada. Narada is called harijana. Great devotee is called harijana, "the persons related with Hari." But if you select some bhangis and chamaras and keep them as he is and rubberstamp it, "Here is a harijana," what will be the effect? There is no harm to pick up a low-class man and to elevate him to the position of harijana. There is no impediment. You can do. But if you keep him a low-class man and if you stamp him harijana, then what will be benefit? Just like we are initiating selected men. "Are you ready to follow these rules and regulation? When he says "Yes", then "Come on. Become harijana." Not that "I'll keep myself in that same abominable condition of life and I shall become harijana." So this "harijana" word has come from Gandhi. He did not try to make him real harijana. He simply rubberstamped him. So what is the value of this harijana?

PUSTA KRSNA: There's another section to this question. In other words, how can all sections of Hindus be made to take an equal interest and have the same sense of belonging to the Hindu religion?

PRABHUPADA: Why you sticking to the Hindu religion? Any Hindu will accept Bhagavad-gita and Krishna. So why not ask them to take Krishna? Why so-called Hinduism? Who is a Hindu who will deny the authority of Krishna? Is he a Hindu? Every Hindu observes Janmashtami, the birthday of Krishna. So why do they not take Krishna's advice and remain practically Hindu? They will not take advice of Krishna, and they, how they can claim to be Hindu?

PUSTA KRSNA: So can all people have an equal interest in religion despite their different classifications?

PRABHUPADA: Yes. That I have already explained, that any human civilized man, he has got some religion. So religion, basic principle of religion is with reference to God. So here is God, What God says, if you take that system, then it will be perfect, not only for the Hindus, for Christian, for Mohammedans, for everyone. And that is being practically done in our Krishna consciousness movement. We have got devotees from all groups of human society and they are taking to it. It is practical. There is no difficulty. So Hindus, Muslims, Christian, everyone take to this Krishna religion, Krishnite. Krishnian. [laughter] Not Christian, but Krishnian. The word christo is also a Greek word. From this christo the Christ has come. So instead of c-h-r-i, k-r-i, the same thing. Christian or Krishnian, or Christian. Krishta is also another broken, I mean, another spelling of Krishna. In India, if one's name is Krishna, we say Krishta. My younger brother, his name was Krishna. So we were calling him Krishta. So Krishta, Christian. So actually, if we take the root meaning, Christian means Krishnian or Krishtian. So that is a controversial point, but everyone can take to Krishna. Then everything will be settled up. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam... [Bg. 18.66]. Make everything clear.