... Everybody will see how political this Hare Krsna HINDU movement is, and that you cannot trust HINDU Hare Krsnas, because they think that they can break any laws, and get away with it.

Situation in Kazakhstan

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:28:20 -0800
To: Miles Davis
From: hans jurgen kary
Subject: Re: Fwd: Kazakh re:BBC Story today

Hey Baba, Hare Krishna, obeisances and all glories to Srila Prabhupada. I don't know what's going on, but it seems like a case of what the last writer described, arrogance of immature ISKCON leadership. Like when they went ahead and renovated the temple for a restaurant without ever securing license and other permits for resturant operation. I don't know, but it seems to be something like that. Still don't know how to get a hold of you by telephone, let me know time and so on...

Your humble servant,
Hansadutta

I'm trying to be humble, it's very difficult, but I'm trying.

Hey there Hansadutta,

What do you make of this attached letter from the Slovenian architect? According to him (her?) the devotees are a bunch of "naive Hare Krishnas" who basically asked for the reaction in Kazakhstan. Your opinion, please?

I was remembering that when I saw Swarup Damodar's Manipuri dance ensemble twenty-five years ago in San Rafael, he chanted the Bhagavat and told the audience the chanting and dance were for "world peace". Considering the way he left this world, all the show was in vain, as his very temple became an object of war and conflict. If we do not learn Prabhupada's lessons internally, then fate will teach them to us externally. Sad, but true.

Palatable preaching, bland pabulum though it may be, is not without its own reaction for the price of deviation is severe. Convention looks good in the church wherein "the blood of Christ" is drunk as a sacrament, an offering that keeps the Amogha-lilas amongst us happy until the visitation of fate. Sooner or later, as sure as Saturn makes his zodiacal round, karmic seeds, even those planted off-handedly, come upon us.

Your servant,
Miles

Note: forwarded message attached below

Received: by mail.pamho.net (COM 3.85.0); Tue, 12 Dec 2006
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:31 +0100
From: "Giri-nayaka (das) BVS (SLO)"
Subject: Kazakh re:BBC Story today
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6169041.stm
Concern over Kazakh religious row
By Natalia Antelava, BBC News, Kazakhstan

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I'm working in architecture since over 10 years, and I have plenty enough experience in the field of land registration. Also I have some serious connections with experts in land trade and registration, and I know how things go, and what I don't know, I can get exact information from the top experts in few minutes. Of course, I'm located in Slovenia, Europe, and I don't know exact Kazakh laws, but I can assume that they are not that much different in real-estate than laws in Europe.

Regarding land ownership, I noticed several devotees saying that Kazakh government destroyed houses on Hare Krsna legally owned land. Now, you must understand, that buying a land doesn't mean that you can do on it whatever you like. There are plans and documents and registrations needed. (I don't know exact English terms, but will try to explain it in simple way to my best ability). Basically, when you desire to build a house on your land, you need permision from government. They study your proposal, they check documentation, and then they decide, if it is acceptable according to state plans and laws.

If your purchased land is registered for agriculture, then you cannot build family houses or weekend houses on it, no matter if you paid for the land and legally own it. First you have to re-register your land, to change its purpose of use, so that it is registered as proper for building houses. Now, such re-registration can be difficult to obtain for building houses, and actually happens rarely. Basically, you can just forget about it in most cases. It depends on local planning documents, local laws, local needs and so on. You need to present really good reasons to be able to change agricultural land into building land.

Usually appeal for re-registration from agriculture land to building land is rejected. There are exceptions, but don't count on that. If you buy agricultural land, and expect to build houses on it, you made a serious mistake in the very beginning, and you bought the wrong piece of land. Agricultural land has much lower price per square meter than building land, and you can get it quite cheap. If you plan on buying agro land cheaply, and then convert it to building land, just forget about it. The state will see it as attempt to cheat them. If you want to build, you must buy building land, and that costs A SERIOUS LOT.

So if your request for re-registration from agro land to building land is rejected, then thats about it. You cannot build houses on such land, it is against the law, and your houses will surely be demolished, no doubt. Only a fool will build houses on his land, without having proper registration and documentation. It is like throwing money away consciously. It is some serious gambling. You can be 100% sure that your house will be demolished eventually.

When you appeal for re-registration from agro land to building land, and your appeal is rejected, officials always state exact reasons, why your appeal was rejected. It is always like this, that when you are informed that appeal is rejected, then there is also note, why it is rejected. And then you need to sort that out, collect all missing permits and documents, and appeal again for re-registration. If there are still some documents or permits missing, your appeal is again rejected, and again there is note regarding what was missing. Again, you have to sort out missing things, and re-appeal. And so on, untill you sort out all missing things.

This appealing and rejecting is normal procedure, and it usually takes several years of hard work to sort out all necessary documents. Please note, that untill you have all necessary documents sorted out, your appeal will be rejected, even if just one thing is missing. It is legal procedure, no need to think that officials have something against you. It is not personal; it is a state bureaucracy. It is what they do – these officials. They receive your appeal, they put stamps on it, they check if all documents are there, and if all is in place, they forward it to another official. And if things are missing, they note what is missing, and reject your appeal. It is simple, and it works like this, no matter how illogical it seems to naive Hare Krsna minds. It is bureaucracy, and there is no way to bypass these procedures.

Now, if you cannot get all registrations and construction permits, then you cannot build your house on your own land. Period!!! If you build anyway, you break the state law, and you are informed by officials that until such and such day you have to demolish your house on your cost, or it will be demolished by officials, and you will have to pay for demolition. This is standard procedure in whole europe, and probably the whole world.

1. You cannot build without permision from state.


2. If you build anyway, you are breaking the state law.


3. Upon being recognized as breaking the law, you are noted that you have to demolish your house until such and such date.


4. If you refuse to demolish your house on your land, then state demolishes your house, and they charge you with expenses for demolition of your own house, on your own legally acquired land.

Let me say again. This is standard procedure, it is functional and followed by any country. If there is physical resistance from land owners, then police is involved to make demolition possible. There may be some minor differences regarding procedure details, but in general it is the same in all places. You cannot build house on your own land, unless you have proper documents! And if you build anyway, you must demolish it, or it is demolished on your expenses. Therefore I say again, only a fool will build a house on his land without all documents and registrations. Now, imagine, if somebody builds 60 houses!!!!! You simply cannot do such thing without proper papers. It is madness, crazy, irresponsible, plain wrong! You cannot do that!!!! Never!!!! Surely you can only expect, that it will be all demolished.

I'm reading all those reports regarding Kazakh carefully, and I feel something is very wrong with the way ISKCON devotees approached this matter. I was hoping somebody will point this out, but if nobody else wants to do it, then I feel I have to do it. It is a fact, that Kazakh devotees bought the land cheaply. I don't know all details, but from all reports I can conclude that they bought land registered for agriculture. And thus it was cheaper, of course. Then they naively wanted to build village of houses on it, but were not able to re-register the land into building land. So they thought, "Whatever, we will build anyway." And they did, and they broke the state law, and were surely informed of that on time. But they didn't care – "Krsna will protect," and they built more houses. 60 houses!!!! Without state permission! They broke the law flat, to the extreme. And when you do that, your houses will be demolished 100%. And then devotees realized their mistake, they saw that they will lose all houses and no way they can avoid that, so they made it all into religious thing. They started with pushing worldwide campaign, telling everybody, that their human and religious rights are violated. And foreigners bought this idea of human-religious rights being broken, especially journalist vultures, who like such news. They like it when things are happening, it is easily earned money for them.

Devotees presented the whole case as one of religious intolerance. But actually it is just a case of a group of people buying agro land cheaply, and breaking the state laws by building houses without permission.

In the end, Kazakh government will just say one sentence, and everybody will see the backstabbing politics of this Hindu (when did ISKCON become Hindu, anyway????) group. Devotees in Kazakh broke the law, and now are trying to find excuse in religious intolerance. There may be some religious intolerance existing in Kazakh, but that may not be the reason for demolishing illegaly built houses. In the end the whole world will see that Hindus, Kazakh Hare-Krsna-HINDUS, actually broke Kazakh state law, and were punished for it, just as would be any other Kazakh citizen be punished in such case, and just as anybody would be punished for the same action in any other "civilized" country in Europe or world. And then everybody will see how political this Hare Krsna HINDU movement is, and that you cannot trust HINDU Hare Krsnas, because they think that they can break any laws, and get away with it.

Besides, it is quite a cheating and misleading from the side of ISKCON leaders and GBC to engage ISKCON devotees in worldwide protests regarding such questionable thing. It is just not fair to engage faithful devotees in political nonsense like this.

Just a thought. Please feel free to forward this text to anybody whom it may concern. Also, feel free to contact me as neccesary.

Your servant,
Giri-nayaka das